Information on my uncle's plane in USAAF 67th TRG in 1944

[casademarty]

I am new to this forum, and I have been researching my family's history, and my uncle, 1st Lt. Raymond J. Doyle, who flew with the 107th TRS, 67th TRG, out of Middle Wallop GB and LeMolay-Littry ALG A-9, Francer, from around November 1943 until his death on 26 July 1944. The plane he was flying when shot down over Periers was serial number 42-103134.

My son and I just got back from visiting his grave site at Normandy and now I am contemplating building a model of his plane. However, I have no pictures that would give me any real clues as to the paint scheme, invasion stripes, or other markings on the plane. How would one research that? I am assuming the squadron markings would be AX, but I don't know how to determine the next letter. From the serial number, I have the tail number. But anything else?

The one picture I have, from June/July 1944, shows my uncle and one of his wingmen, Lt. Charles Easley, sitting on a plane's wing, front view, with the invasion stripes visible. Nothing else. Not sure if plane is painted OD green or metal.

Any help would be appreciated. Any pictures of his unit, whether from Middle Wallop or LeMolay-Littry would also be appreciated.

Thanks

Martin

 

[Wurger]

Welcome to the site.

That's the NA F-6C Mustang IMHO. Judging by the anti-glare strip in front of the windsheld she was of the NMF. The D-Day strips seem to be still on the both sides of the wing ( top and bottom ). This may suggest the same for the fusealge. The dark tone on the frame of the cockpit hood may be the remnant of the earlier Olive Drab top camo.

 

[SaparotRob]

Hi casademarty and welcome. Great project!

 

[cvairwerks]

42-103134 was built as a P-51C-1-NT and was supposed to go the RAF as FB240. Something changed and it was kept stateside and converted to an F-6C. It was shot down by AAA, south of Periers France. The MACR detailing the shoot down is #7485.

Didn't find a photo of 134, but this a/c was in the same squadron at that time: 42-103206 | American Air Museum

 

[le_steph40]

It seems that 107th TRS Mustangs were coded AX...
American Air Museum 42-103622

 

[mjfur]

Here's some photo's of the 67th TRG. Click on "View all 58 Images" in the photo. 67th Tactical Reconnaissance Group | American Air Museum

MACR 7485, National Archives NextGen Catalog

 

[casademarty]

Thank you all for responses.

Our tour guide made a side trip to Lemolay to see where A-9 would have been. And he gave me a piece of SMT that he said was from the area, meaning it was possible that it was from the field my uncle landed on. (There is still a lot of SMT in farmers fences all over LeMolay area).

MACR # 7485 relates to my uncle's plane being shot down. That was where i got plane serial number from.

Totally rookie question, but as a 1st LT., would he have his "own" plane ? Or just take the plane ready on the airstrip when he had a mission?

 

[casademarty]

One of my cousins forwarded me another picture of my uncle and Lt. Easley, in front of plane.

And another cousin sent this one. (all repsonding to my son posting pictures of us at the American Cemetery in Normandy).

Martin

 

[Wurger]

The nice shots. The D-day bands around the wing can be noticed well. Also the spinner and the front part of the "nose was painted propably with the squadron colour or just was of the black.
The appearance of her must have been similar to the AX-G. Please note that the D-day strips still were on the wing undersides only in late 1944.

the sorce: the net and 42-103622 | American Air Museum

 

[casademarty]

How would I research squadron color versus all black on propeller?

Thanks for all help and info.

Martin

 

[GrauGeist]

Welcome to the forums!

Early on, the 107th had a white spinner and adjacent cowl stripe - not sure at what point in time it changed.

Perhaps drgondog might have some better info.

 

[Wurger]

Early on, the 107th had a white spinner and adjacent cowl stripe - not sure at what point in time it changed.

The kind of white marking was used for most of Mustangs used in the Great Britain that were delivered form the USA and wore the camouflage. Additionally there were the white bands on the wings ( near the wing root ) and the vertical stabilisers and elevators. It was a kind of the quick ID markings. While the white was used for the camouflaged kites, the black variant of the ID markings was applied for those of the NMF. Below there is a shot of Mustang IA (F-6A) of the 107th squadron just with the white markings. Therefore I would say the NMF Mustangs of the squadron had the spinner and the cowl strip of the black. So it may mean that the marking there wasn't the squadron colour.

the source: Need research help on 107th F6A photo mustangs.

 

[drgondog]

Welcome to the forums!

Early on, the 107th had a white spinner and adjacent cowl stripe - not sure at what point in time it changed.

Perhaps drgondog might have some better info.

That period of white spinner/white cowl plus white or black ETO bands were pretty uniform in both 8th and 9th AF into mid March, 1944 when 8th AF designated cowl/spinner colors for each FG. Rudder colors to differentiate squadron were proscribed in the November timeframe. Before D-Day the 354th had OD spinner/cowl and the 363rd had black spinner/cowl bands and for a time 67TRG had black/black.

That said I neither have the date nor the 9th AF oders to different groups/squadrons for spinner/cowl schemes for spinner/band combinations save the fact that the changes occurred about the time the top wing and fuselage D-Day stripes were removed (July 9/10). I have seen several 107TRS,particularly F-6A in all camo post July with white spinner/white cowl adjacent to P-51D with lower invasion stripes. I have not seen F-6B/C in that period without D-Day stripes or in Camo (OD) without white spinner/cowl.

As the MIA date was still in July, I SPECULATE that 107TRS had black spinner/cowl, ETO band horizontal stabilizer but not fin/rudder. No invasion stripes top surface of wing and top half of fuselage. That P-51C-1-NT went to depot in late Nov/Dec for the camera mod but I don't have date of arrival at 107TRS.

Based on your pic, which you believe is your uncle's F-6C, 42-103134 it is pretty clear that a.) in NMF, b.) Invasion stripes upper and lower on wing - which implies to me that, c.) D-Day Bands wrapped around aft fuselage, with NMF 'patch' in stripes for the squadron code, d.) black spinner/cowl.

Wurger pointed out interesting detail regadring the LH canopy frame color. I suspect that it is a spare, perhaps due to earlier damage to original, but 134 was delivered to AAF on 12-27-43 - therefore probably OD/gray camo and stripped before D-Day.

Your question regarding 'Lt assigned his own plane". Probably. The 107TRS would probably have 20+ Mustangs assigned in mid 1944 (lower than escort FG wih higher attrition and lower daily mission sortie totals. Usually assigned based on seniority and I would expect more 2nd LT than Captains with very few combined Major/Col headcount.

 

[Snautzer01]

I am new to this forum, and I have been researching my family's history, and my uncle, 1st Lt. Raymond J. Doyle, who flew with the 107th TRS, 67th TRG, out of Middle Wallop GB and LeMolay-Littry ALG A-9, Francer, from around November 1943 until his death on 26 July 1944. The plane he was flying when shot down over Periers was serial number 42-103134.

My son and I just got back from visiting his grave site at Normandy and now I am contemplating building a model of his plane. However, I have no pictures that would give me any real clues as to the paint scheme, invasion stripes, or other markings on the plane. How would one research that? I am assuming the squadron markings would be AX, but I don't know how to determine the next letter. From the serial number, I have the tail number. But anything else?

The one picture I have, from June/July 1944, shows my uncle and one of his wingmen, Lt. Charles Easley, sitting on a plane's wing, front view, with the invasion stripes visible. Nothing else. Not sure if plane is painted OD green or metal.

Any help would be appreciated. Any pictures of his unit, whether from Middle Wallop or LeMolay-Littry would also be appreciated.

Thanks

Martin

Some 107th mustangs Search results for query: 107th

 

[Wurger]

Same addtional info to the Dragondog's post ...

The type ID white bands for the camouflaged P-51s and the black ones for those of the NMF were introduced on the UK based Mustangs in November 1943. The strips were of 15 inches in the width. The one encircling the nose directly after the spinner was of the 12". As memo serves in December 1943 the Dallas in Texas plant was started delivering of the P-51Cs. The first 200 of them were camouflaged but with the s/n. 42-103179 kite the NMF became the basic .

 

[cvairwerks]

The one thing that might throw a monkey wrench into the color speculation, is that 134 was supposed to be delivered to the Brits, but was diverted to being modded to the F-6C standard prior to going overseas. Depending on when it was diverted, that could make a difference in the color scheme a bit.

Would be worth pulling the a/c history card on it.

 

[drgondog]

The one thing that might throw a monkey wrench into the color speculation, is that 134 was supposed to be delivered to the Brits, but was diverted to being modded to the F-6C standard prior to going overseas. Depending on when it was diverted, that could make a difference in the color scheme a bit.

Would be worth pulling the a/c history card on it.

Shouldn't. The Materiel Cmnd issued that deliveries in camoflage should cease on December 24, 1943. NAA complied in the paint shop on or about 2 January, 1944. From the IAC, 42-103134 was delivered and accepted by AAF on 12-27-43. Ergo, it was in and out of the paint shop before NAA even received the memo from Mat'l Cmd. All Mustangs would go through AAF first in every situation once the NA-73/-83 run was completed in 1942. Then va Lend Lease would be parceled out to Brits.

An oddity is that it took a long time to get to UK with several Depot stops. The length of the stops implies that it was modified for 85 gallon tank then modified again to remove it and convert to F-6C.

 

[casademarty]

Amazing information. Thank you all.
I am now thinking of making two models, one for my cousin, Raymond (named after our uncle), who has the original Silver Star, Air Medal and Purple Heart. And is giving me copies of all picures and letters he has.

I am a scale train modleler, so I will be going for "good enuf":
Black cowl and prop, no yellow tips, NMF for body, grey for bottom(?), OD/gray on canopy frame, D-Day/invasion stripes on wings and fuselage, tail number 2103134 (maybe modified from "Satan's Son" decal set), squadron markings of "AX - R" (unless I learn real one somehow). Maybe two scale pilots in same pose as picture.

Thanks for all your help. If you know of a similar site for RAF, Raymond was in RAF from mid 1941(?) to Feb 1942, when he resigned his commision and returned to Brooklyn to join USAAF. Hullavington/Ashton Downs to Flatbush then back to England, Middle Wallop. Limited detail from RAF Historical Branch. Hopefully more info will be in Raymond's OMPF.

Martin

 

[Wurger]

Sounds good. Just a brief note , the NMF overall. No grey for bottom ( undersides ).

 

[casademarty]

Thanks, Wurger.