Iowa vs Yamato comparison

[Shortround6]

Derfflinger was operational 3 years before Hindenburg. So Hindenburg is 3 years better? Or just constantly delayed?

Well, yes, the Hindenburg was pretty much just delayed.

But since the British Battlecruises from the Lion, Queen Mary and Tiger had some serious flaws (anybody to want mention the Repulse and Renown as built? another Fisher fiasco)

 

[The Basket]

HMS Tiger never got the shakedown cruise and was pretty much come as you are.

So Tiger simply was not ready but it was show time.

 

[The Basket]

The only Brit ships I won't defend is the Courageous class.

You can have at that them all day long and twice on Sundays.

 

[Shortround6]

There might have been some excuse for the Invincible's but the excuse got a lot thinner with the Indefatigable.
With the Australia and the New Zealand the excuse went to the 'your dog ate your home work?'

Then was followed up with the Lion, the Princess Royal and Queen Mary.

British don't need to have 4 guns training astern because they not don't run away?

Once again the boiler rooms get in the way of logical layouts.

 

[The Basket]

German ships had bad coal so there actual operational top speed was lower than spec.

British had excellent Welsh coal and so was able to keep on trucking.

 

[Acheron]

The only Brit ships I won't defend is the Courageous class.

Not a capital ship, but will you defend the K-class submarines?

 

[The Basket]

Concept is good.
Steam engines on a Submarine?
Not good.
I am not sure what I am judging.
It's design or career or it's concept?

 

[cherry blossom]

Dragging this back to a version of the original question, how would Iowa and New Jersey do against Yamato, Musashi and Shinano (assuming Shinano had been completed as a battleship). I am asking because Shinano was laid down before Iowa and Yamato cost less than Iowa. In fact, Yamato is quoted as costing 250,000,897 Yen by Wikipedia, which using the 3.47 Yen to the Dollar rate for 1937 gives 72 million Dollars and the Yen was worth much less by 1941. By contrast, Iowa cost more than 100 million dollars. Thus my match up is fair in terms of both date and cost.

 

[The Basket]

3 Yamato v 2 Iowa is not good for the Iowa.
So the Iowas would exit stage right and redline it to get out of Dodge.

Problem will be that a Yamato will be not getting shot at and will have all day to shoot back. Especially if the Yamato are trying to anvil the Iowas.

So it's raining 18 inch shells. Unless the Iowas can one shot a Yamato in the first salvo.

 

[Acheron]

I read that there was an expensive "Special Treatment Steel" (STS) that was better but much more expensive, so navies used it only for criticla parts. Except the US navy because the could afford. Might this have driven up the prices for the Iowas?

Regadring a duel, circumstances seem very important to me. Correct me if I am wrong, but the Iowas had much better radar-fire-controls, so bad visibility would work in their favor. The Yamatos OTOH would probably profit more from shorter initial engagement range?

On a clear day, at maximum engagement ranges, how long could either ship be expected to find the range and score a hit? How long would the flight time of the shells be and how much might this allow evasive maneuvers to come into play?

Another thing, what about the performance of each side's shells? The Yamato had the bigger ones, but I read criticism about them, supposedly optimized for underwater strikes at the expense of direct strikes?

 

[EwenS]

Dragging this back to a version of the original question, how would Iowa and New Jersey do against Yamato, Musashi and Shinano (assuming Shinano had been completed as a battleship). I am asking because Shinano was laid down before Iowa and Yamato cost less than Iowa. In fact, Yamato is quoted as costing 250,000,897 Yen by Wikipedia, which using the 3.47 Yen to the Dollar rate for 1937 gives 72 million Dollars and the Yen was worth much less by 1941. By contrast, Iowa cost more than 100 million dollars. Thus my match up is fair in terms of both date and cost.

It is not the laying down dates that is important but the completion dates.

Firstly look at the build times for Yamato & Musashi. 49 months and 52 months. Japanese shipbuilding capacity doesn't allow Shinano to be laid down any earlier than historical. So to complete her as a battleship and assuming no historical wartime delays, you don't get 3 Yamatos until the third or even fourth quarter of 1944.

While the 4 Iowas were laid down after Shinano that was by only 2-9 months. However the contractual completion dates, which were significantly improved on once war with Japan broke out, would have been

Iowa - Aug 1943
New Jersey - May 1944
Missouri - June 1944 (slipped 4.5 months by Nov 1941 so to beginning of Nov 1944)
Wisconsin - June 1945
Data from BuShips reports.

So, allowing for work ups etc, the window for a three on two battle is very small. The USN can choose to disengage if it is outnumbered using the superior speed of the Iowa. But how likely is such an engagement without both sides having other battleship assets present? By the time Shinano appears there are also 2 North Carolina and 4 South Dakota to bring into the equation.

Comparing cost data between countries tells you nothing due to the different standards of living and technological advancement of the countries concerned. Looking at wartime figures, compared to the US, Britain could build ships cheaper. But the US could build them a lot faster.

 

[The Basket]

Yamato fired optically so night or bad weather would be against it.

Time of flight for a shell fired at 32,000 feet is 60 seconds.

10,000 ft is about 13 seconds. Very very roughly.

So you are a moving target hitting a moving target and firing 60 seconds in advance where you think it will be.

So about 1-2% chance of hitting.

10,000 ft is 33-22% chance of hitting.

The Japanese liked diving shells which if hit water would travel a bit before exploding. This would delay detonation. So against thin skinned targets then it may not detonate the shell. But against Iowa that's won't be a problem.

So a closer engagement is suitable for both sides but sauce for the goose....

Date and times of ships construction are a red herring and must be treated with care.

Royal Navy was still commissioning Pre Dreadnoughtd even after Dreadnought herself so one must always take the more wider view.

 

[EwenS]

By Oct 1943 both Yamato and Musashi had been equipped with radar that, while not designed for the role, could be used for gunnery control. See notes accompanying the Type 22 radar.

Title

 

[Peter Gunn]

3 Yamato v 2 Iowa is not good for the Iowa.
So the Iowas would exit stage right and redline it to get out of Dodge.

Problem will be that a Yamato will be not getting shot at and will have all day to shoot back. Especially if the Yamato are trying to anvil the Iowas.

So it's raining 18 inch shells. Unless the Iowas can one shot a Yamato in the first salvo.

Where did we get 3 Yamato and only 2 Iowa?, shouldn't it be the other way around?

Also, IJN gunnery was meh to good, Iowa's are (relatively) sharpshooters with super heavy shells.

At any rate our buddy Drach did this:

 

[The Basket]

I was replying to cherry blossom.

I didn't question why.

Because I ask how high. Not why.

10 Yamatos v me in a Volkswagen Beetle.

Yamato wins.

 

[SaparotRob]

Not if you keep a Montana in the glove box.

 

[The Basket]

Not if you keep a Montana in the glove box.

Cigarettes? I don't smoke.

 

[GrauGeist]

I don't smoke.

You would if Yamato bracketed your VW...

 

[The Basket]

You would if Yamato bracketed your VW...

I would choose a very foggy night.

Using my superior speed to dictate the fight.

 

[Snautzer01]

I was replying to cherry blossom.

I didn't question why.

Because I ask how high. Not why.

10 Yamatos v me in a Volkswagen Beetle.

Yamato wins.

With gas prizes now, a beetle will win because the others do not dare to move.