Iowa vs Yamato comparison

[special ed]

Similarly, joking, The Japanese intel & espionage would have Tomahawks on board the Yamato by the time they meet.

 

[SaparotRob]

They didn't because Kongo litterally was very old ship. Didn't have radar. But the first cruiser to cruiser battle saw how underestimated the Japanese were at night battles. Besides we are talking about a 1v1 right?? No reinforcements or that crap. Right??

The Kongos were heavily modernized in the thirties.
We all wander off topic a bit from time to time.

 

[Glider]

Clearly this is a scenario that was never going to happen and just my thoughts on a one to one with no exterior involvement

Assumptions / Thoughts
a) The Yamato is better able to withstand the fire of the Iowa than the Iowa is able to withstand the Yamato, her armour is much thicker, the shells a lot larger and she herself is a lot bigger.
b) Almost any hit from the Yamato is going to penetrate the Iowa yet the same cannot be said about the Iowa's shells.
c) At long range the Radar with FC linked to it is always going to give an advantage to the USA, however the size of the advantage depends on the time of day and the weather.
d) Please note it's only an advantage. I believe pre-war the IJN were practicing over the horizon shooting and could get some good results with their spotter aircraft. It would be a mistake to assume that the Iowa wouldn't get hit. The Japanese like the RN were well trained to fight at night and training in a confused night battle shouldn't be underestimated.
e) The Iowa can control the initiative due to its higher speed, but once it takes some hits there is a very good chance that this will soon be lost. Then they are in trouble deep.
f) If the range does close down, the 6.1 on the Yamato, are capable of inflicting significant damage to the Iowa
g) Ultimately the advantage will go to the Yamato

 

[SaparotRob]

Do take very high note that the kirishima really didn't have any radar. Also they were focusing down a battleship that was injured. Kirishima never had the penatrating potential or armour to give her even the sleekest of chance to survive. She couldn't pen the enemy. The only damage was it's secondaries doing super structure damage.
Iowa has speed in night battles but Yamato has manuevrebility. In this case it really isn't who shoots first. The shell types for an instance is different to begin. One more deadly than the other,( however both are still deadly and are pretty much unpredictable)
Yamato would have the advantage of being trained in night battles while the Iowa will have the advantage of that radar. But a hit to Yamato wouldn't be as crippling as a hit to Iowa. I can explain why so but for now I don't have time

I can't back this up with any documentation but I cannot help but believe that after the actions of 14 November, 1942, Admiral Lee's tactics and methods were applied to the rest of the fleet. The late Admiral Scott had his forces practice night fighting earlier (still needed work). I can't help but believe the USN's night fighting ability would be much improved when this clash of the titans would've happened. Mid 1944? The USN adapted with experience.

 

[The Basket]

Iowa: Call in airstrike
Essex carrier : No prob, Fam.
Yamato sinks.

The End.

I am certainly of the opinion that Iowa wins the day. And even if Yamato does win and survive, it ain't getting home. As soon as Yamato sets foot on the field of honour, it's not surviving.

The Americans can always build another Iowa. The Japanese cannot build another Yamato.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Do take very high note that the kirishima really didn't have any radar. Also they were focusing down a battleship that was injured. Kirishima never had the penatrating potential or armour to give her even the sleekest of chance to survive. She couldn't pen the enemy. The only damage was it's secondaries doing super structure damage.

My main point was and is that in a night engagement, radar is superior to eyeballs, especially when your guns are slaved to that radar via a complex RFC system. I know it wasn't a fair fight, but even in a fair fight, radar is a big advantage.

Can you not admit that?

Iowa has speed in night battles but Yamato has manuevrebility.

Turning tight circles won't chase away a faster enemy, and will prove difficult to use for unmasking the main turrets because hard turns disrupt firing solutions. Also, Iowa has a speed advantage any time of day or night, and in most if not all weather as well.

In this case it really isn't who shoots first. The shell types for an instance is different to begin. One more deadly than the other,( however both are still deadly and are pretty much unpredictable)

Assuming that Yamato is shooting in daylight, you could have a point. At night, the Iowa will almost certainly have a longer effective range given that it isn't relying on optical cues.

Yamato would have the advantage of being trained in night battles while the Iowa will have the advantage of that radar. But a hit to Yamato wouldn't be as crippling as a hit to Iowa. I can explain why so but for now I don't have time

Of course the 18.1" shell will do more damage; you needn't explain something so simple to me. Getting the first hits with it in anything but nice weather is going to be a tough order. But although Iowa is shooting smaller shells, it has the advantage of a faster rate of fire, as well as better guidance, as well as higher speed for dodging. And bear in mind that Yamato's belt armor thinned out towards either end of the ship, and the bow showed signs of structural weakness. One can kill a ship without penetrating the main belt.

As I've already said, this battle could go either way, depending on circumstances.

 

[Glider]

Just an observation but lets not forget that the Yamato was commissioned in Dec 41 and the Nearest US BB was probably the S Dakota class, which on commissioning in 1942 had an early Mk3 FC Radar. However the crews often had difficulties and experience with the Mk3 could best be described as mixed.
If we are looking at like for like in1942, all my money is on the Yamato

 

[The Basket]

I is wandering what Yamato min threat would have been. Hood? Rodney?

Don't get me wrong. Gotta love Yamato. Go up against a ww1 battleship, absorb the shells, remove cigarette and then one shot em straight through the belt.

Like a boss.

And then things like radar and air power and submarines and it just ruined it all. The execution of Yamashiro and Fuso and Kirishima are quite illuminating in this regard.

So how Yamato would do against Little Boy or Fat Man is just as relevant.

I do love battleships but it's telling that neither the full Iowas or Yamatos class was ever completed. Or their replacements finished either.

A bygone age like knights jousting on horseback.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

He was joking.

It should have been obvious.

 

[The Basket]

I is thinking.

Put Okha on Yamato. That would be sweet. That would change the dynamic a bit. Perhaps give Yamato a kill radius making it very dangerous to get within gun range.

This was based on a earlier suggestion. The Japanese would only have a cruise missile if it killed the user. And my idea bore fruit.

Perfect for Yasukuni.

 

[SaparotRob]

Don't forget Yamato's "Wave Motion Gun".

 

[WARSPITER]

Don't forget Yamato's "Wave Motion Gun".

Forgot about that. I remember seeing some documentaries about that - they even included some animated remakes - just as well Yamato didn't get to use it.

 

[The Basket]

One aspect is none of this happened so there is no proof either way so don't get hang up.

One aspect is the IJN liked diving shells. So diving shells get under the belt so this is a real danger. This could be the end of any Iowa.

I will have to do research if Yamato carry torpedo. I don't know. Or carried its own torpedo boats.

 

[WARSPITER]

No torpedoes or boats and her seaplanes didn't have the capacity either.

Yamato certainly didn't have a lot of luck with torpedoes being walloped twice - the second time was the worst result of course.

 

[The Basket]

Why not fill the seaplanes with explosives and Kamikaze them onto Iowa? I am doing all the heavy lifting round here!

The seaplanes during Ten-Go were flown off. No point wasting the seaplanes.

Torpedoes on capital ships can be problematic as they are open spaces that can flood. Lutzow is an example here.

 

[WARSPITER]

Why not fill the seaplanes with explosives and Kamikaze them onto Iowa? I am doing all the heavy lifting round here!

The seaplanes during Ten-Go were flown off. No point wasting the seaplanes.

Torpedoes on capital ships can be problematic as they are open spaces that can flood. Lutzow is an example here.

It's a possibility as she carried six seaplanes and Iowa would be forced to do a few turns giving Yamato a chance for a few free shots.

It's also possible for Iowa to use the three planes she had to do the same.

 

[Glider]

The idea that 6 or 3 slow seaplanes are a threat to either of these vessels with their very substantial AA weapons, I find to be more than a little fanciful.

 

[SaparotRob]

Sea plane v. sea plane be a fun sub plot, though.

 

[The Basket]

With hindsight then would Yamato be built? Why not build 3 more Shokakus? Would they be useful?

The IJN thought not as Shinano was not made into a battleship.

So basically 3 giant Uber expensive paperweights were made.

So did Yamato achieve a military aim?

Yes and no. They achieve the old fleet in being but actually didn't do much more. Bit like Tirpitz.

But all a bit tangled. The IJN would have done more if Yamato was melted down and made into mess tins.

Next up. Datsun Cherry v Dodge Charger.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

No torpedoes or boats and her seaplanes didn't have the capacity either.

Yamato certainly didn't have a lot of luck with torpedoes being walloped twice - the second time was the worst result of course.

Not that American torpedoes were terribly good, but that second hit revealed a flaw in the way the upper belt and lower belt were joined on the Yamatos, springing leaks along the seam.