Iranian drones - Kremlin's Vergeltungswaffen?

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Wirblewind was a savage motherf**ker.

I'm a big believer in quad 20s, especially with tracks, Now get Raytheon on this ASAP.

 

[GrauGeist]

Lest we forget what could have been:
The M247 Sgt. York, which was supposed to be part of the M1 and M3 battlefield component system.

*sigh*

 

[ThomasP]

How about the CRAM (Counter Rocket, Artillery, and Mortar) system (or something similar) - the 20mm Phalanx CIWS mounted on a 10 ton HEMTT. It was developed to defend stationary high value assets. Might be useful in Ukraine for defense of power stations and utility installations. The land based variant was designed to fire either the standard tungsten cored AP or HEI-T/SD (High Explosive Incendiary-Tracer/Self Destructing. The system was deployed in the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters, and from what I have heard it worked quite well.

 

[sotaro]

I was thinking of something that flew. All these systems look great, expensive and on the ground. would a dozen of them protect Kiev? This is the future of warfare...

 

[GrauGeist]

Ukraine is in the process of developing air-to-air combat drones.

 

[ThomasP]

re ". . . would a dozen of them protect Kiev?"

The CRAM/Phalanx system could not protect an entire city, but 2-4 could protect power and water plants, electricity and water distribution centers, etc. The accepted range is ~2000 yds, so if there are suitable positions with reasonable LOS they can cover quite a large area. They would (according to tests performed in the 1980s) even be able to shoot down hypersonic missiles. Slower moving targets such as the Shahed should be relatively easy to take down.

As to the expense, while the basic system is not cheap (although a lot less expensive than the NSAM and Patriot, and less expensive than most other radar directed AA missile systems) once it is purchased, the main cost is maintenance/repair. The 20mm HEI-T/SD and tungsten core AP rounds cost about $30/round, so cost per shoot down is relatively cheap. There are a fair number of systems just sitting around doing nothing and there is a lot of ammo available.

 

[SaparotRob]

I know a new word.

 

[ThomasP]

?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I was thinking of something that flew. All these systems look great, expensive and on the ground. would a dozen of them protect Kiev? This is the future of warfare...

It looks like a Phalanx to me. That's a solid CIWS. Being ground-based it doesn't have the ammo limitation of an airplane, and fuel is a lesser concern too. The Patriot and other SAMs have ammo limits, but can reach out and kiss you further.

How many to protect Kyiv, I'm not qualified to say at all, but as a guess, add this to a couple of Patriot or Aster batteries, some Geps, and some MANPADs, you've got a nicely-layered defense. We're getting there.

 

[SaparotRob]

?

Vergeltungswaffen.

 

[ThomasP]

 

[sotaro]

It looks like a Phalanx to me. That's a solid CIWS. Being ground-based it doesn't have the ammo limitation of an airplane, and fuel is a lesser concern too. The Patriot and other SAMs have ammo limits, but can reach out and kiss you further.

How many to protect Kyiv, I'm not qualified to say at all, but as a guess, add this to a couple of Patriot or Aster batteries, some Geps, and some MANPADs, you've got a nicely-layered defense. We're getting there.

To me, cost is a significant issue, especially since the donor countries could lose enthusiasm.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

To me, cost is a significant issue, especially since the donor countries could lose enthusiasm.

At a certain point, penny-wise becomes pound-foolish, too. Watching Ukraine get defeated out of concern for outlays that total to one-half of one percent of our defense budget could be very expensive when we examine what that might mean for our defense needs in a world where aggressive expansion is permitted out of concern for that pittance.

 

[SaparotRob]

Especially since we're sending equipment that's past its "Best if used by" date. Heck, we're using F-16s as target drones. Russia (whose weapons are second to none) has to go to Iran for high tech drones. Boeing sends someone out back to the dumpster and comes up with a super new weapons system, GLSDB. I imagine most of the munitions sent lend-lease were kind of stale. As the EPA frowns on dumping missiles behind the school yard, the costs to dispose and record same is probably pricey.
As I understand Lend-Lease, Ukraine has to pay for what they keep and dispose of the rest.
These weapons were designed to be used against Russia. They're doing just that. We ain't even pulling the trigger. It's almost like we're using them autonomously.
Talk about bang for your buck.

 

[ARTESH]

Hook up a radar to this and call it a day:

View attachment 701312

Why not just use ZSU-23-4 Shilka?

I think Ukraine has plenty of them as an ex member of Warsaw Pact ( as well as Poland and all other neighbors.)

 

[ARTESH]

Russia (whose weapons are second to none) has to go to Iran for high tech drones.

Meanwhile the Regime fans see this as a "victory", the reality is not much pleasant!

Iran just "montages" drones. All schematics and blueprints are in Russian and they supervise production.

 

[SaparotRob]

That's very interesting.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I hadn't realized it when I read of this deal, but in exchange for the drones and missiles, Russia is bartering over 30 Su-35s.

 

[GTX]

Why not just use ZSU-23-4 Shilka?

I think Ukraine has plenty of them as an ex member of Warsaw Pact ( as well as Poland and all other neighbors.)

Ukraine did have ~300. Not sure of current status though.

 

[ARTESH]

I hadn't realized it when I read of this deal, but in exchange for the drones and missiles, Russia is bartering over 30 Su-35s.

That's only for news agencies!!! IRL, Russians have occupied shores of Caspian sea and all of resources in it, oil, gas, cavialr, name it.

They are now getting ready to capture the Persian Gulf! After Chinese, they became bolder and bolder.