The Basket
Senior Master Sergeant
- 3,712
- Jun 27, 2007
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
So
1- is a merchant ship a warship
2- therefore legal to sink?
3- If a merchant ship evades a warship then it is resisting boarding then could be classed as a combatant.
4- If a merchant ship had a 4 inch gun manned by military personnel then is it a warship?
5- If it is told to ram a submarine then is it a warship?
6- If it is told to radio a warning then again is it a warship?
7- If it carries what maybe war material then is it a warship?
The legal definition of Prize Rules or what a merchant vessel is certainly up for grabs and the use of Q Ships means that a merchant ship could be genuinely mistaken for a warship and following prize rules to be suicidal.
So sinking merchant vessels without warning would be perfectly legal if the ships are seen as combatant.
These rules remind me of the rules of cricket or football, they depend on some sort of Corinthian spirit not a determination to win at any cost. Captain Langsdorff on the Graf Spee observed the rules purely because they were the rules, there was no referee to make him or give him a red card. Since the Graf Spee was pursued and attacked anyway I cant see what incentive there was for anyone to follow these rules of engagement.
Langsdorff went above and beyond what was required by the laws of the time, my father was in the RN hated Germans but admired Langsdorff. The last sentence of your post that I put in bold emphasises the point I made, having rules in an unlimited war that was being fought to obtain unconditional surrender doesnt and cannot work. You cannot starve someone to death in a legally correct way, same with a nation. You also cannot expect someone who is starving to death to die rather than break a rule.Langsdorff was employee of the month material and that no lie. Fat good it did him.
They were told to be nice and follow prize rules for PR reasons. So don't want no Lusitania early doors. Especially off South America where your fan club might be.
Soon as you have a gun you is armed and locked and loaded. Be that 18 inches or a little pop gun. So I would say that orders to ram or radio or run away is not giving the captain of the merchant ship the opportunity to surrender and so not giving the enemy ship the opportunity to resolve peacefully.
The Hilfskreuzer would tell an allied vessel to stop but the merchant ship be on the radio QQQ and so it be big gun time. The vessel will be under attack and probably not be in good shape afterwards. Which would stop it been taken as a prize or its cargo from been looted.
The legality of Q Ships is one of interest to me as they be a major cause of the German navy in ww1 switching to unrestricted submarine warfare as the U-Boots would have no idea if they were facing a merchant ship or an auxiliary cruiser.
It is a very well informed U Boat captain that knows what constitutes "war supplies" in the WW2 era, Is that wood to make a cabinet or a Mosquito? In 1940 one British "secret weapon" was the Dowding system of what we now call CaC, so anything concerned with telephones and radios are "war supplies" almost everything was something to do with the war in some way.Is the merchant ship carrying munitions? Troops? War supplies?
It is a very well informed U Boat captain that knows what constitutes "war supplies" in the WW2 era, Is that wood to make a cabinet or a Mosquito? In 1940 one British "secret weapon" was the Dowding system of what we now call CaC, so anything concerned with telephones and radios are "war supplies" almost everything was something to do with the war in some way.
The legality of Q Ships is one of interest to me as they be a major cause of the German navy in ww1 switching to unrestricted submarine warfare as the U-Boots would have no idea if they were facing a merchant ship or an auxiliary cruiser.