Is Spitfire relly superior to FW-190?

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and you can't bais your argument on one point, you're point being that

A simple Split S maneuver and 190A is outta there, and the Spit XIV will have to run circles to get behind it again

doing that is simply stupid..........

and this is interest pD, i'll try and lok into the designation system a bit more, but this i do know, in RAF service the B-17 was know as the "Fortress" not the B-17...........

 

[plan_D]

Nevermind him, lanc, the world of aviation is black and white to him. I'm pretty sure it was being turned into letter systems too, although you might be right. We did have H.F and L.F for fighters and PR. for photo recce. I'm sure they would have had F.21 for the Spitfire F.21.

I love the way everyone has avoided the F.21.

 

[plan_D]

I have read that the F.21 received contra-rotating props during World War 2 and Griffon engined Seafires were delivered during World War 2. The Mk. XV and Mk.45 were both delivered during World War 2, January 1945 to be precise and the Mk.45 was a converted F.21! hah!

Ooo, I need a book on all this, the internet is sucking at the moment.

 

[Soren]

What is it with you people ?!

I never said the 190A8 was superior to the Spit XIV !! So whats the problem ?!

And yes Lanc, all it takes to escape a Spit XIV in a Fw 190A8 is to do a Split S, and the Spit has totally lost the 190. So 'YES' my point is 100% valid, as this proves entirely that the 190A8 wasnt a easy 'push over' for a Spit XIV.

 

[plan_D]

Wow, how did any 190s get shot down...bloody hell...

Anyway, the F.21 is even better.

 

[Soren]

Wow, how did any 190s get shot down...bloody hell...

How do think ?

I suppose you forgot that all the Spit has to do to loose a 190A on its tail, is to turn and keep turning....

Its all about which pilot utilizes his a/c's advantages the best.

But since the Spit XIV is faster, climb better and turns better, it is slightly superior to the 190A8. (strictly talking the two a/c)

 

[plan_D]

The XIV is faster, climbs better and turns better...it's only slightly superior...

The Zero turns better and climbs better than the Wildcat, it's the fuck-in dogs bollocks.

 

[Soren]

Yes Plan_D, Roll rate and diving characterristics count a whole lot.

And btw, the Zero is also superior to the Wildcat.

 

[plan_D]

You can't read, can you? Or you don't understand the English language. I was mocking you and you walked straight through it without even getting it.

I know the Zero is superior to the Wildcat...oh just forget it...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

You can't read, can you? Or you don't understand the English language. I was mocking you and you walked straight through it without even getting it.

I know the Zero is superior to the Wildcat...oh just forget it...

You know D, you just don't have a sense of humor (Kidding)

 

[Soren]

You can't read, can you? Or you don't understand the English language. I was mocking you and you walked straight through it without even getting it.

I know the Zero is superior to the Wildcat...oh just forget it...

Oh I see, well sry but I never heard that one before

 

[plan_D]

Let me explain the mocking then we'll get back to the discussion. You state that the Spitfire XIV was only 'slightly' superior to the Fw-190A-8 because the Fw-190 had superior roll and dive to the Spitfire but the Spitfire had superior everything else.

The A6M Zero only had superior low-speed turn and climb to the F4 Wildcat yet it's far superior to the Wildcat, how does that work?

Now, one on one the Wildcat would fall prey to a Zero, yes. Two Wildcats against four Zeros would come up in the Wildcats favour using the correct thatch and weave tactics. Since you say that the pilot would, or at least should, know how best to use his aircraft the Wildcat is a superior aircraft in real combat because planes don't go out on their own.

I'm researching the F.21 at the moment, we'll soon come back to that.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

and soren, ok so the -190 can do one menouver to get away from a spit, the spit can do hundreds to get the -190, what point are you trying to prove here?? like i said you cannot base you're argument for the -190 not being a push over on one simple points, when you have taken little else into considderation, in if a plane has superior turning circle, speed and rate of climb, it is more that "slightly" superior to annother.........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Lanc what makes you think the Fw-190A could only do one move to get away form a Spit. So what is your point?

Lanc I know the Fw-190 is not a British plane or a Lancaster but it is better then you think it is. I am sure you will find hundreds and hundreds of Spit XIV and higher being shot down by Fw-190A's also. The 190A was one of the best fighters of the Second World War. Do you really think a Spit XIV pilot would go "Wow there is a 190A, man this is going to be easy!"

There is more to a plane than its speed, roll rate, and so forth.

 

[Soren]

Let me explain the mocking then we'll get back to the discussion. You state that the Spitfire XIV was only 'slightly' superior to the Fw-190A-8 because the Fw-190 had superior roll and dive to the Spitfire but the Spitfire had superior everything else.

The A6M Zero only had superior low-speed turn and climb to the F4 Wildcat yet it's far superior to the Wildcat, how does that work?

Now, one on one the Wildcat would fall prey to a Zero, yes. Two Wildcats against four Zeros would come up in the Wildcats favour using the correct thatch and weave tactics. Since you say that the pilot would, or at least should, know how best to use his aircraft the Wildcat is a superior aircraft in real combat because planes don't go out on their own.

Plan_D, you changed your mind already ?

Plan_D, the Zero wasnt just superior to the F4F in low speed turning and climb rate, it was superior in every aspect of flight up until 300mph(Except diving), and above that it could most of the time loop its way out of trouble.

Also since the Zero is up to 20mph faster than the Wildcat, it is clearly the superior aircraft of the two.

Note: The Thach Weave tactic relied heavily on a speed advantage.

and soren, ok so the -190 can do one menouver to get away from a spit, ,

One maneuver Lanc ? I don't think you know the importance roll rate and diving characteristics has on a plane's ability to maneuver.

I'll let you think about that one...

the spit can do hundreds to get the -190

Sure, hundreds... What else could it do than turn when it has a 190A on its tail ? (If it climbs, it gets hit)

 

[plan_D]

The Spitfire could out-climb and out-turn the Fw-190A. It was faster and had a higher operational ceiling, it was faster in acceleration. It was easier to fly, it was easier to recover.

The only things the Fw-190A-8 had over the Spitfire XIV was dive and roll rate. I'm sure you won't find hundreds of Spitfire XIV being shot down by the Fw-190A.

 

[Soren]

The Spitfire could out-climb and out-turn the Fw-190A.

Through the first 45 degree's of a turn the Fw 190A would turn inside the Spit very quickly, and because of its much superior roll rate it could start its turn much quicker.

It was faster and had a higher operational ceiling, it was faster in acceleration.

Sure it was slightly faster in accelleration, but not nearly enough to save its butt in a tough spot against a tailing 190A8.

It was easier to fly,

Untrue, the Fw 190 was a pilots airplane as described by every LW pilot who flew it.

it was easier to recover.

The Fw 190A would stall viciously but would easely recover, so there goes that theory.

 

[plan_D]

No none of my 'theories' are gone out of the window because they were all facts. The Spitfire was easier to fly and easier to recover than the Fw-190.

You've still failed to read properly though. I assume you skip quickly over the posts and then just make up what the other person has said. I haven't changed my mind at all.

First off, I was mocking you for saying the Zero was amazing when all it has over the Wildcat was low-speed turn and climb rates, but the Spitfire was only slightly superior because it had everything but roll and dive. If you don't get it this time, just leave it.

One Zero would be able to deal with one Wildcat but aircraft never went out on their own for combat. The Wildcats would be acting as a squadron and they would use tactics to defeat the Zero. Two Wildcats could defeat four Zeros. The thatch and weave requires speed, what does a dive do? It gives you speed. The Wildcat achieved great success against the Zero once thatch and weave had been perfected.

 

[Soren]

No none of my 'theories' are gone out of the window because they were all facts.

With that attitude there's no point in argueing it with you, cause you've already made up your mind and no'one will change it.

So all I can say is, "prove it", either with aerodynamic or historian facts.

The Spitfire was easier to fly and easier to recover than the Fw-190.

Source ?!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The only things the Fw-190A-8 had over the Spitfire XIV was dive and roll rate. I'm sure you won't find hundreds of Spitfire XIV being shot down by the Fw-190A.

I am sure you will. What else was shooting down the Spitfires? Dont tell me that 100's did not get shot down.

Lets see Priller was a Fw-190A pilot and he shot down 68 Spitfires, Josef "Sepp" Wurmheller shot down 56 with a Fw-190A, Maj. Hans "Assi" Hahn shot down 53 with a 190A, Obstlt. Egon Mayer shot down 51 with a 190A, and Maj. Siegfried Schnell shot down 49 with a Fw-190A. and htis is just 5 Luftwaffe pilots who tallied up 277 Spitfires. I can not confirm the type of each Spitfire and I am sure most of them are not XIV's because of the early years they were shot down however who shot down the hundreds, the British themselves!? You keep thinking that plan_D.

The Spitfire was a great aircraft but she was no where near the best of WW2. If you look up what aircraft killed the most Spitfires I am sure you will find that it was a Fw-190A and the aircrat that downed the most Fw-190s was probably a P-47 or P-51 since they had the range to take the fight to the Germans and the Spit did not.

The Fw-190 was very maneuvarable and coudl outfly a Spit just as well also.

I will ask Erich for some info on Fw-190A and Spitfire engangements I am sure he has some and can shed light on the subject.