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Thank you.One of the French companies licenced the Wright R1820.
I will try and remember which and I will read your linked articles later
Just remembered Jane's AWA 1938 - last two lines below.
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.toutefois dans des évolutions largement perfectionnées dont Hispano ne profita jamais
I see what you mean about it being a failure. Seriously, only 710hp takeoff from the workhorse Cyclone?? That is astonishing.Les moteurs 9V étaient encore en production en 1939, mais furent abandonnés au début de la guerre. Il est évident qu'ils n'auraient jamais pu atteindre le potentiel du Cyclone d'origine, qui donnait déjà 1 000 ch à la même période.
I believe they also enquired about having RR Merlins built with the involvement of Ford in France.Thank you.
That is interesting because if the French were also talking to Wright then they were pursuing all four volume producer of high performance engines in the western world. G-R and Hispano clearly weren't keeping their customer happy!
Yes, the first article I linked to goes into the Fordair project in a bit more detail than I have seen elsewhere. Apparently it covered the Griffon as well!I believe they also enquired about having RR Merlins built with the involvement of Ford in France.
As far as my French allows me to understand the link it shows the desperate unreality of the situation. Testing Merlins for use in French aircraft in late 1939 and early 1940 is just too late. I read an article I can no longer find on the "net" about early talks to set up license production of Merlins, but as was found with the RR factory in Glasgow and the Packard production in USA it takes years not months to achieve.Yes, the first article I linked to goes into the Fordair project in a bit more detail than I have seen elsewhere. Apparently it covered the Griffon as well!
Considering that the Bristol Jupiter and Mercury were licenced and built by more companies for civil use than any American engine I think that statement needs revision.I still haven't found any mentions of UK interest in licenses which I suppose makes sense if they felt Bristol & R-R (and maybe even Napier) would come good eventually
I had to run the page through google translate, schoolboy French from 30 years ago was not up to it. But yes, anything after probably 1937 is too late to help. It's very interesting to understand the differences and similarities between the industries, expansion plans etc and the direction things were going if they had not run out of time. Plan V versus Scheme M, etc.As far as my French allows me to understand the link it shows the desperate unreality of the situation. Testing Merlins for use in French aircraft in late 1939 and early 1940 is just too late. I read an article I can no longer find on the "net" about early talks to set up license production of Merlins, but as was found with the RR factory in Glasgow and the Packard production in USA it takes years not months to achieve.
But were the Jupiter and Mercury of any more use to the RAF in 1940 than the (also prodigiously licenced) Hispano and G-R were to the AdA?Considering that the Bristol Jupiter and Mercury were licenced and built by more companies for civil use than any American engine I think that statement needs revision.
As far as my French allows me to understand the link it shows the desperate unreality of the situation. Testing Merlins for use in French aircraft in late 1939 and early 1940 is just too late. I read an article I can no longer find on the "net" about early talks to set up license production of Merlins, but as was found with the RR factory in Glasgow and the Packard production in USA it takes years not months to achieve.
D Deleted member 68059 may have come across something in his travels.
Which engine would they need? If you can foresee the Sabre being a dog for all its life then there is a case for using a US radial engine, but it would be cheaper just to buy the engines rather than setting up your own plant for the numbers put in Typhoons and Tempests.In hindsight it was desperate unreality, but until May 1940 (or perhaps a preview in April) nobody expected to be suddenly out of time.
Nothing comes to mind about British interest in licensing US engines (which, of course, doesn't prove anything)- mostly they seemed to have the idea that the Americans ought to build the "superior" British engines.
Thanks for the comment, that is very good to know. My strong suspicion is that if there was any 'serious' interest it would have left such traces in the archives that you would have come across it multiple times already. If it's so obscure as to not have shown up in your research or to warrant a mention in Sebastian Ritchies small book on the industry expansion then it likely never went very far. Certainly with 4 major domestic manufacturers (plus the smaller players like DH, Pobjoy, Cirrus etc and Alvis & Faireys aspirations) the market would look very well covered, even if there were unsuspected troubles ahead. So it does seem like an artefact of the internet rumour factory.Sorry I dont have time at this present moment to look into this for you, however, I do not think I have any really obviously useful archive files on it, so I would have to do a skim-search which would be time consuming. I "suspect" that licence building of foreign engines would not have been a great solution for Britain, as the issue of supply of modern factory space and manpower would not have been alleviated from such an arrangement. I think if Britain had wanted foreign engines, they would have preferred to simply buy "crate" engines and have them shipped in. I imagine that a discussion along those lines must have taken place, but I do not think I have a record of it to hand. Some small interest might be found regarding British views on French engines in the early-30`s in this British Air Ministry letter.
On the subject of finished engine imports, have you seen a source anywhere summarising the numbers? I assume a certain number must have come in as spares with US aircraft orders and presumably some others were acquired specifically for UK built aircraft. However I have not seen a breakdown of the numbers and whether engines were repurposed from one group to the other to any extent.Well the Brits certainly did import US engines for British aircraft - the R-1830 for the Beauforts and Sunderlands being an example.
The R-1830 was already in use in A/C supplied to UK so there were already the spares and servicing "lines" set up, the question is always numbers. Packard wouldn't entertain any order less than 5,000 units when discussing setting up a factory to make Merlins.Well the Brits certainly did import US engines for British aircraft - the R-1830 for the Beauforts and Sunderlands being an example.
Although fitting the Hudson powerplant complete, including exhaust and most cowlings, to the Beaufort seems to have been an Australian idea (Aus bought and paid for a Pratt to be shipped to the UK as part of the design changes) how much of the conversion was UK designed and how much Aus designed is hard to know. My belief is the adaptor between the engine mount and undercarraige and nacelle was UK designed and the rest done in Aus however some of the part numbers indicate more was done in the UK. Certainly on aircraft 1-52 the whole power plant except the prop, the governor and the stupid Dowty accessory box were 100% Hudson. On later aircraft most parts, except the mount, dishpan and gills remained the same Lockheed numbers. The gills are a CAC design complete with CAC part numbers.
This installation must have required some redesign of the nacelle to accept the Hudson exhaust and I do not know if the Pratt or Taurus has the largest diameter. Maybe if I looked at a structural repair manual I could tell but I do not have the Aus SRM.