Mine as well. It was a true Japanese counterpart of the P-47. I'm surprised so many people see the Ki-84 as a Japanese Jug. The Frank is a sleek and beautiful plane. The P-47 is...well...a jug.
Japanese Jug!
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Mine as well. It was a true Japanese counterpart of the P-47. I'm surprised so many people see the Ki-84 as a Japanese Jug. The Frank is a sleek and beautiful plane. The P-47 is...well...a jug.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
However, the KI-87 was designed as a high-altitude interceptor. Ut never got past the single type built.
The KI-84 on the otherhand, was faster and was a threat to Allied aircraft. It also inflicted a considerable amount of damage to Allied targets at Okinawa
The KI-84 on the otherhand, was faster and was a threat to Allied aircraft. It also inflicted a considerable amount of damage to Allied targets at Okinawa
GregP
Major
The P-47 would have been somewhat svelte if not for the turbocharger. The bottom 1/3 of the P-47 was all ducting for the turbo.
I agree Jug was a massive fighter and Ki-87 was a massive fighter when compared to the other Japanese Army fighters being almost as big as P-47D and not much lighter.
Juha
So was also P-47 initially, IIRC the specs on which the P-47 was initially designed was for a lightweight interceptor.
Juha
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Just for the heck of it, I'll toss out some quick specs on the above mentioned aircraft so everyone can get an idea of their size.
These are from Wiki, so they have the potential for a +/- error factor there, but like I said, they are for a rough idea of how big these aircraft were
To start with, the P-47D:
Length: 36 ft 1 in (11.00 m)
Wingspan: 40 ft 9 in (12.42 m)
Height: 14 ft 8 in (4.47 m)
Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m²)
Empty weight: 10,000 lb (4,535 kg)
Loaded weight: 13,300 lb (6,032 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 17,500 lb (7,938 kg)
1 × Pratt Whitney R-2800-59 twin-row radial engine, 2,535 hp (1,890 kW)
Maximum speed: 433 mph at 30,000 ft (697 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 800 mi combat, 1,800 mi ferry (1,290 km / 2,900 km)
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)
Rate of climb: 3,120 ft/min (15.9 m/s)
Wing loading: 44.33 lb/ft² ()
Power/mass: 0.19 hp/lb (238 W/kg)
8 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (3400 rounds)
The Nakajima KI-87:
Length: 11.82 m (38 ft 9.375 in)
Wingspan: 13.423 m (44 ft 0.5 in)
Height: 4.503 m (14 ft 9.312 in)
Wing area: 26.00 m² (279.860 ft²)
Empty weight: 4,388 kg (9,672 lb)
Loaded weight: 5,633 kg (12,416 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 6,102 kg (13,448 lb)
1 × Mitsubishi Ha219 Ru (Ha-44/11) eighteen-cylinder air-cooled radial four-blade, 1,789 kW (2,400 hp)
Maximum speed: 697 km/h (379 kn, 433 mph)
Cruise speed: 470 km/h (254 kn, 292 mph)
Service ceiling: 12,855 m (42,175 ft)
Wing loading: 216.6 kg/m² (44.3 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.317 kW/kg (2.3 kg/hp; 5.2 lb/hp)
2 × 30 mm (1.18 in) Ho-105 cannons in the outer wing panels and 2 × 20 mm synchronized Ho-5 cannons in the wing roots
The Nakajima KI-84:
Length: 9.92 m (32 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 11.238 m (36 ft 11 in)
Height: 3.385 m (11 ft 1 in)
Wing area: 21 m² (226.041 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,660 kg (5,864 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,601.5 kg (7,940 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 4,170 kg (9,194 lb)
1 × Nakajima Ha-45-21 Homare 18-cylinder radial engine, 1,522 kW at SL, 1360 kW at 17,900 ft (1,970 hp at SL, 1850 hp at 17,900 ft)
Never exceed speed: 800 km/h (496 mph)
Maximum speed: 686 km/h (426 mph) at 7,020 m (23,000 ft)
Range: 2,168 km (1,347 mi)
Service ceiling: 11,826.24 m (38,800 ft)
Rate of climb: 21.84 m/s at SL, 18.29 m/s at 3050 meters (4300 ft/min at SL, 3600 ft/min at 10,000 ft)
Wing loading: 171.47 kg/m² (35.1 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 1.8 kg/hp (4 lb/hp)
2× 12.7 mm Ho-103 machine guns in nose, 350 rounds/gun
2× 20 mm Ho-5 cannon in wings, 150 shells/cannon
The Kawasaki KI-100:
Length: 8.82 m (28 ft 11 in)
Wingspan: 12.00 m (39 ft 4 in)
Height: 3.75 m (12 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 20 m² (215 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,525 kg (5,567 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,495 kg (7,705 lb)
1 × Mitsubishi Ha 112-II radial engine, 1,120 kW (1,500 hp) at take off
Maximum speed: 580 km/h (313 kn, 360 mph) at 6,000 m (19,700 ft)
Cruise speed: 400 km/h (217 kn, 249 mph)
Range: 2,200 km (1,189 nmi, 1,367 mi)
Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,090 ft)
Climb to 5,000 m (16,400 ft): 6 min
2 × 20 mm fuselage-mounted Ho-5 cannons, and 2 × 12.7 mm (.50 in) wing-mounted Ho-103 machine guns
And the Kawanishi N1K1:
Length: 30 ft 7 in (9.3 m)
Wingspan: 39 ft 4 in (12.0 m)
Height: 13 ft 0 in (3.9 m)
Wing area: 253 ft² (23.5 m²)
Empty weight: 5,855 lb (2,656 kg)
Loaded weight: 8,820 lb (4,000 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 10,710 lb (4,860 kg)
1 × Nakajima Homare NK9H radial engine, 1,850 hp (1,380 kW)
Maximum speed: 408 mph (658 km/h)
Range: 1,066 mi; 1,488 mi (2,395 km) ferry (1,716 km / 2,395 km)
Service ceiling: 35,500 ft (10,800 m)
Rate of climb: 4065 ft/min (20.3 m/s)
Wing loading: 34 lb/ft² (166 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.226 hp/lb (0.305 kW/kg)
4× 20 mm Type 99 Model 2 Mk 4 cannon in wings.
As you can see, they were all large planes and much heavier than the typical Japanese fighter of the early half of the war, so it's no coincidence that they might resemble the P-47 in one way or another.
These are from Wiki, so they have the potential for a +/- error factor there, but like I said, they are for a rough idea of how big these aircraft were
To start with, the P-47D:
Length: 36 ft 1 in (11.00 m)
Wingspan: 40 ft 9 in (12.42 m)
Height: 14 ft 8 in (4.47 m)
Wing area: 300 ft² (27.87 m²)
Empty weight: 10,000 lb (4,535 kg)
Loaded weight: 13,300 lb (6,032 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 17,500 lb (7,938 kg)
1 × Pratt Whitney R-2800-59 twin-row radial engine, 2,535 hp (1,890 kW)
Maximum speed: 433 mph at 30,000 ft (697 km/h at 9,145 m)
Range: 800 mi combat, 1,800 mi ferry (1,290 km / 2,900 km)
Service ceiling: 43,000 ft (13,100 m)
Rate of climb: 3,120 ft/min (15.9 m/s)
Wing loading: 44.33 lb/ft² ()
Power/mass: 0.19 hp/lb (238 W/kg)
8 × .50 in (12.7 mm) M2 Browning machine guns (3400 rounds)
The Nakajima KI-87:
Length: 11.82 m (38 ft 9.375 in)
Wingspan: 13.423 m (44 ft 0.5 in)
Height: 4.503 m (14 ft 9.312 in)
Wing area: 26.00 m² (279.860 ft²)
Empty weight: 4,388 kg (9,672 lb)
Loaded weight: 5,633 kg (12,416 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 6,102 kg (13,448 lb)
1 × Mitsubishi Ha219 Ru (Ha-44/11) eighteen-cylinder air-cooled radial four-blade, 1,789 kW (2,400 hp)
Maximum speed: 697 km/h (379 kn, 433 mph)
Cruise speed: 470 km/h (254 kn, 292 mph)
Service ceiling: 12,855 m (42,175 ft)
Wing loading: 216.6 kg/m² (44.3 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.317 kW/kg (2.3 kg/hp; 5.2 lb/hp)
2 × 30 mm (1.18 in) Ho-105 cannons in the outer wing panels and 2 × 20 mm synchronized Ho-5 cannons in the wing roots
The Nakajima KI-84:
Length: 9.92 m (32 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 11.238 m (36 ft 11 in)
Height: 3.385 m (11 ft 1 in)
Wing area: 21 m² (226.041 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,660 kg (5,864 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,601.5 kg (7,940 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 4,170 kg (9,194 lb)
1 × Nakajima Ha-45-21 Homare 18-cylinder radial engine, 1,522 kW at SL, 1360 kW at 17,900 ft (1,970 hp at SL, 1850 hp at 17,900 ft)
Never exceed speed: 800 km/h (496 mph)
Maximum speed: 686 km/h (426 mph) at 7,020 m (23,000 ft)
Range: 2,168 km (1,347 mi)
Service ceiling: 11,826.24 m (38,800 ft)
Rate of climb: 21.84 m/s at SL, 18.29 m/s at 3050 meters (4300 ft/min at SL, 3600 ft/min at 10,000 ft)
Wing loading: 171.47 kg/m² (35.1 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 1.8 kg/hp (4 lb/hp)
2× 12.7 mm Ho-103 machine guns in nose, 350 rounds/gun
2× 20 mm Ho-5 cannon in wings, 150 shells/cannon
The Kawasaki KI-100:
Length: 8.82 m (28 ft 11 in)
Wingspan: 12.00 m (39 ft 4 in)
Height: 3.75 m (12 ft 4 in)
Wing area: 20 m² (215 ft²)
Empty weight: 2,525 kg (5,567 lb)
Loaded weight: 3,495 kg (7,705 lb)
1 × Mitsubishi Ha 112-II radial engine, 1,120 kW (1,500 hp) at take off
Maximum speed: 580 km/h (313 kn, 360 mph) at 6,000 m (19,700 ft)
Cruise speed: 400 km/h (217 kn, 249 mph)
Range: 2,200 km (1,189 nmi, 1,367 mi)
Service ceiling: 11,000 m (36,090 ft)
Climb to 5,000 m (16,400 ft): 6 min
2 × 20 mm fuselage-mounted Ho-5 cannons, and 2 × 12.7 mm (.50 in) wing-mounted Ho-103 machine guns
And the Kawanishi N1K1:
Length: 30 ft 7 in (9.3 m)
Wingspan: 39 ft 4 in (12.0 m)
Height: 13 ft 0 in (3.9 m)
Wing area: 253 ft² (23.5 m²)
Empty weight: 5,855 lb (2,656 kg)
Loaded weight: 8,820 lb (4,000 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 10,710 lb (4,860 kg)
1 × Nakajima Homare NK9H radial engine, 1,850 hp (1,380 kW)
Maximum speed: 408 mph (658 km/h)
Range: 1,066 mi; 1,488 mi (2,395 km) ferry (1,716 km / 2,395 km)
Service ceiling: 35,500 ft (10,800 m)
Rate of climb: 4065 ft/min (20.3 m/s)
Wing loading: 34 lb/ft² (166 kg/m²)
Power/mass: 0.226 hp/lb (0.305 kW/kg)
4× 20 mm Type 99 Model 2 Mk 4 cannon in wings.
As you can see, they were all large planes and much heavier than the typical Japanese fighter of the early half of the war, so it's no coincidence that they might resemble the P-47 in one way or another.
GregP
Major
The one that comes the closest to the P-47 for me is the J2M Raiden.
We have one (the ONLY one) and when you see them side by side, it's amazing.
We have one (the ONLY one) and when you see them side by side, it's amazing.
Interesting how we can differ on interpretation. What these figures point out to me is that the P-47 is a much heavier airplane than any of the Japanese fighters, making comparisons rather hard. Yes, these Japanese fighters are heavier than the A6M and Ki-43 of 1941, but (I don't have any figures infront of me), I suspect they are in the range of the P-51, Fw 190, Bf 109G, etc...ie making them much more comparable to these planes inspite of their radial engines. On appearances alone, I can see why one would consider the George most akin to the P-47, but I'd still say that the Ki-87 is the only plane in the group that is conceptually close to the P-47 in design.
GregP
Major
Good one, Wuzak. Now if if only we can strip off the green paint ...
Tachikawa Ki-94
That's not an aeroplane, this is an aeroplane
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 12 m (39 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 14 m (45 ft 11 in)
Height: 4.65 m (15 ft 3 in)
Wing area: 28 m² (301.388 ft²)
Airfoil: Tatsuo Hasegawa airfoil
Empty weight: 4,637 kg (10,337 lb)
Loaded weight: 6.450 kg (14.220 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Nakajima Ha219 [Ha-44-12] 18-cylinder air-cooled radial engine, 1,835 kW (2,461 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 712 km/h (385 kn, 443 mph)
Cruise speed: 440 km/h (237 kn, 273 mph)
Range: 2,100 km (1,305 mi)
Service ceiling: 14,680 m (48,170 ft)
Wing loading: 230.4 kg/m² (47.2 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.28 kW/kg (0.17 hp/lb)
Climb to 5,000 m (16,400 ft): 5 min 9 sec;
Climb to 10,000 m (32,800 ft): 17 min 38 sec;
Climb to 13,000 m (42,640 ft): 21 min 03 sec
Armament
Guns: 2 × 30 mm (1.18 in) Ho-155 cannons and 2 × 20 mm Ho-5 cannons in wings,
Bombs: 2 × 250 kg (551 lb) bombs
That's not an aeroplane, this is an aeroplane
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 12 m (39 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 14 m (45 ft 11 in)
Height: 4.65 m (15 ft 3 in)
Wing area: 28 m² (301.388 ft²)
Airfoil: Tatsuo Hasegawa airfoil
Empty weight: 4,637 kg (10,337 lb)
Loaded weight: 6.450 kg (14.220 lb)
Powerplant: 1 × Nakajima Ha219 [Ha-44-12] 18-cylinder air-cooled radial engine, 1,835 kW (2,461 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 712 km/h (385 kn, 443 mph)
Cruise speed: 440 km/h (237 kn, 273 mph)
Range: 2,100 km (1,305 mi)
Service ceiling: 14,680 m (48,170 ft)
Wing loading: 230.4 kg/m² (47.2 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.28 kW/kg (0.17 hp/lb)
Climb to 5,000 m (16,400 ft): 5 min 9 sec;
Climb to 10,000 m (32,800 ft): 17 min 38 sec;
Climb to 13,000 m (42,640 ft): 21 min 03 sec
Armament
Guns: 2 × 30 mm (1.18 in) Ho-155 cannons and 2 × 20 mm Ho-5 cannons in wings,
Bombs: 2 × 250 kg (551 lb) bombs
Last edited:
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
you dont want to google japanese jug on your work computer.....
