Last of the BF-109's

[Thorlifter]

I just read where the BF-109/HS-1112 were still active into the 70's. These models were actually powered by Merlin engines.

Now I'm sure the power was dialed back from what you would see in a 'combat' plane, but does anyone have performance numbers from one of these Merlin powered planes?

I would imagine that if a Merlin engine would have found it's way into a 1940-41 BF-109, that would have been scary.

Here is the link where I read this...
Messerschmitt Bf 109 - Germany


Oh yeah....second question

It also stated that the Me-209 set the speed record in 1939 at 470 mph with a greatly boosted engine. I understand that this plane had no armor nor guns to make it lighter, but why didn't they put this "greatly boosted engine" in their combat planes? It just doesn't make sense to me if the BF-109 E-3 had a max speed of 340 and you had an engine that would let it, at least break 400 MPH, why wouldn't you use that?

 

[Treize]

The Merlin-engined Buchons weren't appreciably better performers than the DB engined 109s, it was more a case of supply- it was much easier to license the rights to the Merlin and to acquire spare parts than it was to try and build the later versions of the DB-605 series engines. BTW, if you've ever seen the movie "Battle of Britain" ths 109s used in the film were all Spanish Buchons.

The second question- because that boosted super-engine had an extremely short life and was wholly unreliable for combat use.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The merlin powered Buchons dont even handle like a Bf-109 which is why I dont consider them 109s. Because of the Merlin the shape of the nose of the 109 had to be changed. This all effected the way the aircraft flew.

Also Merlins were not necessarily better than the DBs during WW2. Both the DB and the Merlins went back and forth with each type getting an edge on the other.

 

[Thorlifter]

See..........ask and ye shall receive.

Thanks guys.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

It also stated that the Me-209 set the speed record in 1939 at 470 mph with a greatly boosted engine. I understand that this plane had no armor nor guns to make it lighter, but why didn't they put this "greatly boosted engine" in their combat planes? It just doesn't make sense to me if the BF-109 E-3 had a max speed of 340 and you had an engine that would let it, at least break 400 MPH, why wouldn't you use that?

with highly specialised items like that it's often impractical to use them on a large scale, it'd make -109s more expensive, take longer to produce, they tend to be less reliable and would make maintenance a nightmare in the field..........

 

[gerrywac]

The Buchon or Spanish 109 used the Merlin engines simply beacause they were the best obtainable replacement for the Daimler Benz engines that were unavailable. Merlins were also used in the CASA built versions of the Heinkel 111.
Both went on toi serve the Spanish Air force until the 70's

The ME209 was a specially built plane that had nothing in common with the 109. The numbering was a propoganda trick to suggest it was a development of the 109.

I belive that it used anvery highly tuned engine that also used a total loss evaporative cooling system that was totallt impractical for service use (I believe that RJ Mitchell considered using such a system in the early thoughts for the Spitfire but quickly abondoned it for the same reasons)

The engine was effectively scrap after little more than a few hours

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Merlins were also used in the CASA built versions of the Heinkel 111.

Particularly noticable in the Battle of Britain film, although obviously they had no choice!

 

[HealzDevo]

Yes, also would you in preparing for something, use an engine that was going to be possibly be restricted or an engine that has been created in Germany, and thus you have the design crews who know about the engine and can tinker around with it when necessary to produce desired results? I think the Germans wanted their own engine so that they had the crews that knew about the engine to re-engineer it later when necessary...

 

[wdolson]

I just read where the BF-109/HS-1112 were still active into the 70's. These models were actually powered by Merlin engines.

Now I'm sure the power was dialed back from what you would see in a 'combat' plane, but does anyone have performance numbers from one of these Merlin powered planes?

I would imagine that if a Merlin engine would have found it's way into a 1940-41 BF-109, that would have been scary.

Hi all, I'm new here. I've been looking at a few threads before posting my question and came across this...

I believe it was around 1942, the Germans wanted to prove that the DB engine was superior to the Merlin, so they took a captured Spitfire Mk V and replaced the engine with the current model DB going into 109s. Much to their dissappointment, they found that the DB powered Spitfire had almost identical performance to the Merlin powered Spitfire.

The two engines really were on par with one another. As others have said, the only reason the Spanish used Merlins was that they were available after the war and the DB engines were not.

BTW, I have seen a resin conversion kit to convert a Tamiya Spitfire Mk V into the DB powered version.

Bill

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

that'd make one hell of a model to see i've only ever seen that one pic of the DB engined spit..........

 

[wdolson]

that'd make one hell of a model to see i've only ever seen that one pic of the DB engined spit..........

I found the conversion set: Spitfire Fighter Upgrade Set

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

man that looks good! thanks for posting!

 

[net_sailor]

that'd make one hell of a model to see i've only ever seen that one pic of the DB engined spit..........

Hey, did you see this?
http://www.unrealaircraft.com/hybrid/spitfire.php

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Very cool.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

unfortunately there aren't many more pictures than that!

 

[Jank]

"Much to their dissappointment, they found that the DB powered Spitfire had almost identical performance to the Merlin powered Spitfire."

Now an R-2800 powered little Bf-109 ... that would have been something.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

how would the pilot see over the nose

 

[HealzDevo]

Good point Lancaster, good point!

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

let's be frank, who are we kidding, that thing came close to blocking out the sun!

 

[HealzDevo]

You would need to find a way to make sure that the pilot could see over the nose well enough to fly the thing...