Lavochkin La-9M/11 'Fang' Info...

[JonJGoldberg]

I haven't posted in a while... Hello all.
I've been swamped at work, and put off by..., but I'd love to put this behind... I need to gather some stuff for you guys related to some cool threads I see you've been cookin'... I'll be joining in again soon...

In the meanwhile, as I gather... Continuing with my CFS-2 collection, I picked up a wonderful looking La-9/11 set for CFS-2. I've helped the vendor resolve issues associated with getting the aircraft to work, for free allthough the aircraft is 'pay-ware'; to help keep CFS-2 a bleeding mess of it's former self, but alive... This aircraft is available for CFS-3 as well at www.flight1.com (The Mustang can also be found there, but the Detroit Miss skin on the '51 is a repaint I've done on my own).

To that end I'm looking for help with La-9/11 specs pics... I'm very interested in the La-9M, which I think belongs in company with the TA-152/FW-190D/Late Spitfires/George/Frank/G-55/Bearcat/Sea Fury/Yak-9... All these 'Last Ditch' Piston Aircraft molded to be 'Pure Fighters'... It seems capable of being quite nasty. Also of intrest would be info about a war neglected by me at least, the air war over Tiawan... Here we may see some very 'real' hypothetical US vs Soviet battles resolved... With pilots of roughly equal training ambition... Since the tables were turned, and the Ponies Jugs were both on the defensive, out numbered, many more questions have the potential of resolution (assumptions on my part as I do not really know). Thunderbolts against La-9 11s; Mustangs against Yaks... No Jets?

The info gathered to aid in refining the air files for La-9; La-9M; La-11... The air war over Tiawan info would be great to talk about, I believe very relevant to the WW2 aviation category.

Anyway a pic or two of my 'new -toy'...

 

[Udet]

Great graphics there Mr. Goldberg.

I am sure you are aware the La-9 entered service in late 1946 aren´t you?

Although I do not have my papers at hand, i can tell if you were going to compare the La-9 with piston engined aircraft of the Luftwaffe (which saw their production terminated in april/may 1945, meaning more than one year before the arrival of the La-9 into service) such as the Ta-152 and the
Bf 109 K-4, you´d find out these German fighters surpass the soviet design in most aspects.

For instance, the La-9 is easily and largely left behind by the Bf 109 K-4 in climb rate (4820 ft/min in the German plane versus 3490 ft/min). The Ta-152 and the La-9 were matched in the climb rate department.

Both the Ta 152 and Bf 109 K-4 are faster than the soviet model.

The La-9 was certainly a competitive fighter: it carried powerful four NS-23 cannon armament and had an air-cooled radial engine, still nothing impressive when you compare it with planes that had ended production more than a year before the arrival of the soviet plane.

Cheers!

 

[JonJGoldberg]

Thanks!

Just trying to have some fun. I view the all metal La-9/11 as a natural progression of an aircraft in continual production, with a history dating back to the all wood LaGG-3. It seems reasonable to compare TA-152s FW-190Ds to La-9/11s despite the two year gap... Should I be in the Korean war section? Like the Bearcat, the '51K, Tempest, or Sea Fury, the plane was not a 'front-line' fighter by then. The reduced cadence of the La-9/11 series development I believe was due to the delays eventual discontinuance of a more powerful engine, of course this is a Russian aircraft; a nation whose weaponry capability has always been 'colored' in the 'west'; making them far better or worse, according to temperament... Which was they were at least a half step behind; they liked to continue build 'older' or 'export quality' fighters, so this aircraft, La9/11 became the equivalent of a used 'Pony' to the 'Ruskies'as they 'fanagled' their way into the jet age.

La9/11s sparred many times with '51s, F-4Us Thunderbolts where they did well (?); they were called upon to intercept B-29s over Korea, where they faired poorly (?, I would think). I'm wondering if they served against the French Bearcats, Or British Hornets Tempests Seafuries, or former Axis types, such as the Merlin Me-109s (SM-?? I forget) flown by the Israelis, or maybe even some Italian G-55/9s. The speed advantages mentioned are real, but small. I was not intending this thread to be a this vs that thread... I was trying to gather info, but I understand, acknowledge my part in seeding reseeding this with analogies such as those related to Ta-152s.

What I'm able to gather at the moment, from after the LaGG-3...

La-5/La-5FN - After designing the LaGG-3, the designers split. It soon became obvious

that the only cure for the shortcomings of the LaGG-3 was a new, more powerful engine.

The best alternative was the M-82 radial. Lavochkin managed to modify the LaGG-3 to

accept this engine, despite the lack of official support. The La-5 entered service in

1942. In its developed La-5FN version it was superior to the German fighters at low

and medium altitudes. Its disadvantages were primitive equipment, a bounce-inducing

undercarriage, and in the early stages very poor production quality. One 1850hp

Shvetsov ASh-82FN.
Modifications: La-7, La-9, La-11.

Lavochkin La-5FN

Powerplant 1215kW (1630hp) M-82FN radial engine
Max Speed 647km/h (402mph) at 5,000m (16,404ft)
Time To Climb 5 minutes to 5,000m (16,404ft)
Service Ceiling 11,000m (36,089ft)
Max Range 765km (475 miles)
Wing Span 9.8m (32ft 1in)
Length 8.67m (28ft 4in)
Height 2.54m (8ft 3in)
Empty Weight 2,605kg (5,743lb)
Max Weight 3,402kg (7,500lb)
Armament 2x 20mm nose cannons
4x 8.2cm (3.23in) RS-82 rockets, or
150kg of bombs.


La-7/La-120 Fin - Development of the La-5, incorporating changes recommended by the

TsAGI to reduce drag. The La-7 (bureau designation La-120) had excellent performance

and handling, but its standard of equipment remained extremely austere. The oil

radiator was moved to the lower center of the fuselage. The La-7 had an increase in

speed of about 10-15mph over the La-5;5753 built. One 1850hp Shvetsov M-82FN. 1943.
Experimental modification : La-126.
Prototype for La-9/ La-11.

Lavochkin La-7 (I believe the Only Russian Aircraft To Have Been Credited With Me-262 Victories)

Powerplant 1380kW (1850hp) M-82FN (Ash-82FN) 14-cylinder radial engine
Max Speed 665km/h (413mph) at 5,000m (16,404ft)
Ceiling 10,800m (35,435ft)
Max Range 635km (395 miles)
Wing Span 9.8m (32ft 1in)
Length 8.6m (28ft 2in)
Height 2.54m (8ft 4in)
Empty Weight 2,638kg (5,816lb)
Max Weight 3,400kg (7,496lb)
Armament 3x 20mm Beresin B-20 ShVak nose cannons* (with 200 rounds per gun)
6x 8.2cm (3.23in) RS-82 rockets, or
100kg of bombs.

*Only about 368 left the factory with this armament.

La-9/La-130 Fritz - The La-9, alias La-130, was a development of the La-126. It looked

similar to the La-7, but it had an entirely new all-metal construction. The big

problem of the La-9 series was the continuing unavailability of new, more powerful

engines, and therefore it never reached its full potential. Development of the

Lavochkin La-9 began in 1945. It was a follow-through of the La-7 which was a proven

fighter at the time. The La-9 was redesigned with all structure being metal (as

opposed to some of the wooden structure the La-7 carried). The removal of the wooden

structure helped to lighten up the aircraft enough so that the aircraft could be

fitted to carry substantially greater quantities of fuel and still be not much heavier

than the La-7. The fuel capacity was increased to 825 liters and had an increased

endurance of 4 hours 30 min. The wings were slightly more cut-off at the tips instead

of the more elliptical tips of the previous fighters. Production tests began in June

and finished in October, 1946. The three (or two) 20mm cannons of the La-7 were

replaced with four 23mm cannons, (reduced back to 3 23mm cannons in the La-11).Only

1600 produced, because improved La-11 was ready. One 1850hp/1350kW Shevtsov ASh-82FN.
Version with pulse jets: La-138.
Later production modification: La-11

La-11/La-140 Fang - Single-seat, piston-engined fighter. Was standard equipment for

Soviet Air Force fighter units during immediate postwar years. Similar to the La-9,

but with a longer range, due to tip tanks, reduced armament and improved aerodynamics.

One Shvetsov ASh-82FN 1850hp/1350kW. 1895 built. Used in the Korean war.

Lavochkin La-9

Powerplant 1380kW (1850hp) M-82FN (Ash-82FN) 14-cylinder radial engine
Max Speed 690km/h
Ceiling 11,130m
Max Range 1735km
Wing Span 9.8m (32ft 1in)
Length 8.6m (28ft 2in)
Empty Weight 2,660kg
Max Weight 3,676kg
Armament 4x 23mm NS-23 nose cannons
As well as provision for rockets and bombs

 

[Chocks away!]

That last picture is interesting. Did the aircraft actually fight against western types with the airforce of taiwan?

 

[wolfgen]

Tht e last pic shows a ROCAF P-51 shot down by La-11 in shanghai area,1950. La-11 piloted by russian ,not chinese pilot.

La-9 did combat flight in china during 1950-1959.most la-9 used to training and air defence missions in Beijing area(1950-1952),but china PLAAF also use La-9 for recon/attack mission in Heishui battle,1951

La-11 are also used in 1950-1959,some piloted by russian for air defence missions in shanghai area.In 1951-1955,most La-11 do photo recon,escort bombers and CAP missons in taiwan channel.

Most La-11 piloted by china PLA navy pilot during taiwan channel combat.it also shot down a taiwan rocaf p-47n.

In 1954,2 PLAAF La-11 mistake Cathy`s DC-4 airliner as Taiwan rocaf C-54 cargo.They shot the dc-4 ,cause very hard damage and crash near Hainan Island.In this area,2 PLAAF La-11 shot down by USN A-1 skyriders later.

 

[hawk1]

Hard to believe that a P-51 would be bested by an La-11, all things being equal (including pilot). Those La-11 pilots who shot down an unarmed Privateer over the Baltic in 1950 were lucky that plane didn't have an escort; they wouldn't have made it back to talk about the skirmish...

 

[ShVAK]

Lavochkin La-7 (I believe the Only Russian Aircraft To Have Been Credited With Me-262 Victories)

Actually, I believe the Yak-9 was the first credited with a 262 kill.

 

[Juha]

Actually, I believe the Yak-9 was the first credited with a 262 kill.

I'm a bit doubtful on that, there were not many Me 262s around in 1946 when the La-9 proto made its first flight.

Juha

 

[ShVAK]

I'm a bit doubtful on that, there were not many Me 262s around in 1946 when the La-9 proto made its first flight.

Juha

That's why I said "Yak-9." Different family of fighters, first Yak-9 rolled out in (very) late 1942.

 

[Juha]

That's why I said "Yak-9." Different family of fighters, first Yak-9 rolled out in (very) late 1942.

Hello ShVAK
my bad, maybe I really need a new spectacles.

Juha

 

[nuuumannn]

Hi Guys,

Here are a couple of photos of the world's only airworthy La-9 taken a few years ago in New Zealand; it was restored in the UK and flew here at Wanaka for a couple of years, but I believe it has gone off shore now. Somewhere I have a pilot's review of what it was like to fly and how it compares with the likes of P-51s etc. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[ShVAK]

That is a damn good-looking plane. Always did like the Russian fighters (as if my username wasn't a big giveaway).

 

[GregP]

Actually, the famous British Pilot Mark Hanna said the La-9 out-accelerated the Bearcat and was a first-rate aircaft, regardless of opponent! I believe him.

It was a Soviet Wonder at a time when the west was abandoning pistions and going to jets.

 

[Juha]

Hello Greg
Yes, IIRC in an article in Aeroplane Monthly he also wrote that it better than Sea Fury in classic air combat manoeuvrability.

Juha

 

[nuuumannn]

Actually, the famous British Pilot Mark Hanna

Don't think it was Mark Hanna, Greg; he's been dead since 1999 and that La-9 didn't fly until 2003. It would have been his dad Ray. I think I have that article somewhere, but here's a wee snippet from an article written by the New Zealand Warbirds CFI Frank Parker, who has also flown a few different types:

"I had been fortunate to fly the Yak-3 some years ago and the La-9 cockpit ergonomics are similar. Although the La-9 systems are hydraulic versus pneumatic in the Yak, the operation is similar. The cockpit is spartan yet functional; for example, the cowl flap controls are operated by cable via hand wheels (compared with electrics in the Spitfire or a hand brake in the P-40). If you have flown a Yak-52 you would feel comfortable; the cockpit is cosy and you feel a part of the aircraft. Once settled over the airfield, off to the training area for some air work, firstly low speed nad approach to the stall, all very docile. Some wing overs - now this aircraft really wants to manoeuvre, so into basic aerobatics.

The controls are responsive and well harmonised and are light. The ailerons are very effective, not quite as good as a P-40 (which is acknowledges as having a very good roll rate) but superior to the Spitfire. The elevator is firm but not heavy (whereas the P-40 becomes very heavy at speed, while the Spitfire is very light). Of note is the trim, once set, you need very little adjustment. This is a feature of the Yak-3 also and in fact that aircraft didn't have a rudder trim. Maybe these Russian designers knew a thing or three. Now a high speed dive. Nose down and the ASI starts winding up - 600, 620, 650 km/h, that's 350 kts without really trying..."

An interesting little technical novelty about the La-9 was that exhaust gasses were ducted from the engine through the fuselage and then after filtration into the wings as inert gas. This was done to force out fuel vapour and to minimise the chance of explosion during combat or after a crash. It also helped maintain fuel pressure.

A couple more pics.

 

[GregP]

Oops! I believe youa re correct, it WAS Ray Hanna, not Mark. Old memories aren't all that accurate, are they? At least I got the "Hanna" part right!

I read the article maybe 20 years ago and filed it away in my mind, apparently a bit incorrectly. I saw that plane fly only in videos and it was demonstrated quite nicely, but the pilto was never identified.

 

[nuuumannn]

There were a few pilots who flew it here; Obviously Ray Hanna and Frank parker, also New Zealand based display guys John Lamont and Keith Skilling, skilled and experienced warbird pilots. I think it was Skilling flying it at Wanaka where I took my photos of it. The aircraft was owned by Garth Hogan at the time, dunno who has it now, or if he even sold it?

It's a sweet looking little aeroplane alright; it reminds me of a racer with its elegant tail and slender rear, but with a big radial out front.