Markings 480th Anti-submarine group

[prinses]

Hey guys,

In 1943 the 1st and 2d Anti-submarine squadrons were assigned to the 480th ASG flying out of Northern Africa. These squadrons flew olive drab or white/grey coloured B-24Ds. I have seen some photos of these aircraft supporting a single letter on the aft fuselage next to the USAAF roundel. Were there any codes or colours assigned to these two squadrons? Did these squadrons (or the 480th ASG) have unit specific emblems?
Any information on these units is useful.

Regards,
Prinses

 

[CATCH 22]

Hey guys,

In 1943 the 1st and 2d Anti-submarine squadrons were assigned to the 480th ASG flying out of Northern Africa. These squadrons flew olive drab or white/grey coloured B-24Ds. I have seen some photos of these aircraft supporting a single letter on the aft fuselage next to the USAAF roundel. Were there any codes or colours assigned to these two squadrons? Did these squadrons (or the 480th ASG) have unit specific emblems?
Any information on these units is useful.

Regards,
Prinses

Hi Prinses!
Years ago I was collecting materials about B-25 units in the anti-submarine role and I came across several sites/articles about B-24 squadrons and groups in the same role. Checking what I have saved, this site came out:
20 | April | 2016 | Preserving the Past
There are a few photos and some explanations about the 1-st and 2-nd ASS. Photos are from the period when the 2 squadrons were in Port Lyautey, French Morocco, but show a/cs on Ascension Island.

Check it - it might help.
You might also check B-24 Best Web "BBW" Site @ B24BestWeb 14000⊕ PICs - AKA BBW - WWII B-24 Liberator Bombers for photos from the 480-th ASG. Here's one from North Africa - white fuselage code, but no nose letter/number:

Same here:

Good luck!

 

[Dana Bell]

The 480th's aircraft first went to England in OD and Neutral Gray - with one aircraft wearing Sand and Neutral Gray. Before moving to the MTO, the aircraft were given a coat of British Mediterranean Blue (records didn't specify if that was Light or Dark Med Blue) with white undersides. Aircraft #10 in Catch 22's posting was one of those aircraft and carried the yellow surround to the fuselage insignia and below the right wing insignia, with fuselage letter C and serial 42-40333. The Monkey's Unkle (sic) artwork was carried on both sides of the fuselage. (There a photo of the right side in Air Force Colors Volume 2, but if you can't find that book any more it will appear in my new book on OD and Neutral Gray next month.)

New and replacement aircraft from the US generally wore the more traditional OD over white, with variations in the demarcations.

Since the 480th was not assigned to the Eighth AF, the aircraft did not carry 2-character squadron codes. If squadron codes were assigned, I've seen no record of them.

Cheers,


Dana

 

[CATCH 22]

The 480th's aircraft first went to England in OD and Neutral Gray - with one aircraft wearing Sand and Neutral Gray. Before moving to the MTO, the aircraft were given a coat of British Mediterranean Blue (records didn't specify if that was Light or Dark Med Blue) with white undersides.
Dana

Hi Dana!
It's great to find you answering in this forum!
Below is a photo from B24BestWeb showing B-24D(AS) EM DIVING from the 1-st ASS:

I believe this a/c has the same med. blue over white camo you mentioned. It's interesting to see that the fuselage insignia has a very dark surround which is usually seen when insignia red was overpainted with fresh insignia blue. There is a brief description of this a/c in the article I mentioned in my first post "Preserving the past".
Regards!

 

[prinses]

Thanks for the reply guys, this is really helpful.
I attached three pics of B-24D 41-23677 (from b24bestweb.com) in different schemes. It indeed looks like it was repainted RAF Mediterranean blue and white before moving to MTO. The yellow 12 was probably added while operating in MTO.
Also, according to Stalking The U-Boat (Max Schoenfeld), at St Eval, each aircraft was assigned a letter, following RAF procedure, to identify individual aircraft. It looks like the 1st AAS was assigned letters A-L and the 2d AAS was assigned letters M-Z. It does not say anything about the colours of these letters, or spinner or engine cowling colours assigned to the different squadrons.
I guess the yellow surround to the fuselage insignia on some of the aircraft is related to Operation Torch in MTO. (Although the operation had already finished the time the 480th arrived in the theater.)
Thanks again for the replies.

Regards.

 

[prinses]

Regarding the coloured picture in the previous post, although very difficult to determine, I would say the colour used on the 480th aircraft is Light RAF Mediterranean Blue.

Regards

 

[kilowm]

20 | April | 2016 | Preserving the Past
In late March 1943, the two squadrons were next reassigned to Port Lyautey, French Morocco, and on 19 June 1943 they became the 480th American Antisubmarine Group. They flew a modified B-24D Liberator bomber equipped with radar, external long range fuel tanks, and other special equipment for hunting German U-boats. Their new combat operating area was north and middle Atlantic from Newfoundland to Trinidad. The southern route was from the Bay of Biscay to Ascension Island, a major part of the Battle of the Atlantic.
The B-24Ds used by the 480th Group were initially painted in normal olive drab and grey camouflage with the serial number and radio call letter in yellow on the tail fin. With their arrival at Port Lyautey in June, the aircraft all received insignia white sprayed undersurfaces, which modellers call shade 46. This white was sprayed up the aircraft fuselage sides and some even painted the outer two vertical tail fins. Code single letters appear in white, while aircraft numbers on nose are yellow. No two aircraft appear to have the same white sprayed color markings, just a wave pattern.

My grandfather, William O Watts was on 480th Anti Sub 2nd squadron.

 

[Casste]

Hey guys,

In 1943 the 1st and 2d Anti-submarine squadrons were assigned to the 480th ASG flying out of Northern Africa. These squadrons flew olive drab or white/grey coloured B-24Ds. I have seen some photos of these aircraft supporting a single letter on the aft fuselage next to the USAAF roundel. Were there any codes or colours assigned to these two squadrons? Did these squadrons (or the 480th ASG) have unit specific emblems?
Any information on these units is useful.

Regards,
Prinses

This is a photo of my father's plane. He was assigned to the 480th in North Africa. The name is "Sub Mission", a clever play on words. Contact me as I have many records of his flights during his time in theater.

 

[fubar57]

 

[Fran480]

This is a photo of my father's plane. He was assigned to the 480th in North Africa. The name is "Sub Mission", a clever play on words. Contact me as I have many records of his flights during his time in theater.

My Dad also was on the plane sub- mission, I'm sure they knew each other . Would like to get more info that you have

 

[kilowm]

My Dad also was on the plane sub- mission, I'm sure they knew each other . Would like to get more info that you have

Was this a 2nd squadron plane? If so my grandfather was in that squadron a d am still searching for information, photos etc

 

[Casste]

This is the crew photo. My dad is standing on the right. He was the Bombardier. Those with stars were killed in action.

 

[Casste]

Was this a 2nd squadron aircraft. If so my grandfather was in that squadron a d I am looking for all kinds of info about it.

My dad was in the 1st squadron. Both were stationed at Craw Field, Port Lyautey, French Morocco from March-December 1943. Now modern day Rabat. The best book on this subject is "Stalking The U-Boat" by Max Schoenfeld.

 

[JMA]

Does anyone have color & marking information on the B-24 flown by Hugh Maxwell in his "dogfight" with two FW-200 Condors on August 17, 1943? He was with the 480th out of French Morocco. I'm an artist and was debating doing a picture of the event.

 

[fubar57]

Picture of the nose-art here...The ARK (PIC 1) and here...The ARK (PIC 2) though you've probably seen these

 

[CATCH 22]

Hugh Maxwell could have been in "The Sad Sac" (this is the correct spelling, not sacK!), s/n 42-40378 - check the article I mentioned in my post #2 "Preserving the Past". There is a good description of the a/c, markings etc. On the photo below you see 3 "Condor"- kill markings - again check the article.

Later on the 3 kill markings have been overpainted and 6 svastikas have been added:

Something bothers me though: I don't think this a/c was overpainted in MedBlue - the original factory stencils are still visible. Plus the white paint (bottom) clearly applied over the (existing) top paint and not vice versa. The camo should be the original OD over insignia white IMHO.
For comparison an overpainted a/c below (copied from post # 5):

Cheers!

 

[fubar57]

He must have flown "The Ark" at a different time...The War's Oddest Dogfight | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine

 

[JMA]

Thanks, fubar57. That was the article I read, but I have no reference as whether the aircraft color was olive drab or blue, and what markings may have been elsewhere on the aircraft, or what color the nose markings are. I'm not doing this right away; just thinking. I have a lot of projects underway at the moment, but always looking for something interesting and unusual.

 

[CATCH 22]

He must have flown "The Ark" at a different time...The War's Oddest Dogfight | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine

Geo, the article I quoted was my only information about this case. It's kind of tricky because all 480-th a/cs have the same kill markings for u-boats. It was my understanding that "The Sad Sac" is the only one with Condor-markings. Checking the second photo of "The Ark"

I see 3 overpainted kill-markings as well..
And the same story with "Em Diving":

"Sub-mission":

Naa, I don't trust those popular articles that much. Is there a report of the case?
Cheers!

 

[fubar57]

Hey Yves. We need to find someone with this book