Mini BEF to Poland, April 1939

[Admiral Beez]

31 March 1939, Britain and France issued a security guarantee to Poland. Historically, Britain and France did little to actively protect Poland, but not this time. 20 April 1939, a British and French transport fleet escorted by RN and French warships sails around Denmark and into the peacetime Baltic Sea, arriving at Gdynia. Off loaded are ten thousand combined British and French troops, a small artillery contingent and two RAF and two Armée de l'Air squadrons. 1 May 1939, the battleships return to the North Atlantic, but a few RN and MN warships remain at the main Polish naval base at Gdynia, planning to stay through to the coming of winter ice in Nov 1939. The troops and aircraft plan to remain in Poland to autumn 1940, at which time London and Paris will reassess and decide what/where to deploy.

This is a tiny force, a fly for the invading Germans and Russians to swat away. But what does this move do to Germany and Soviet assumptions and plans?

 

[Snautzer01]

Thats a good plot.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It only makes Hitler postpone them. Which gives his army more time to prepare.

 

[pbehn]

It only makes Hitler postpone them. Which gives his army more time to prepare.

That gives everyone more time to prepare.

 

[Glider]

It might put Germany off as their assumption I believe was that the UK and France would not protect Poland. Certainly they wouldn't last long but war would break out earlier than Germany planned.
The interesting thing which I cannot work out is what would it do the Russia's plans. Would they go it alone?

 

[Shortround6]

It is it all politics. Does it convince Hitler that the British and French are serious or do they take a good look at what was sent and after laughing, they delay the invasion by one week.

The Poles mustered around 30 divisions, some were under strength. a 10,000 man force is under strength division, and sending it in under equipped with heavy weapons, armor, and transport may not give the symbol of strength/resolve you are looking for.

for the British especially you have sent part of the training cadre off to Poland making harder to get the rest of the Army up to speed.

You might have gotten similar results with a few cargo ships of weapons. But they have to be sent in the spring and not late summer.

 

[SaparotRob]

Was it when Hitler went into the Sudetenland he planned to back off if challenged? Had Germany assimilated Czech weapons and munitions manufacturing assets yet? He might have backed off a bit. Even Admiral Raeder thought he had until 1945. I really don't know. As there were few aircraft carrier vs. aircraft carrier battles, I never read up on this theater.
Yeah, I could have looked it up but I enjoy conversation more than homework.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

It's a tripwire force that advances the war (for London and Paris) by two days. They're still going to be helpless once the Germans decide that it's a gesture and not a commitment.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That gives everyone more time to prepare.

True, but I think the Germans were a lil ahead of the allies that early in the game.

 

[pbehn]

True, but I think the Germans were a lil ahead of the allies that early in the game.

They were, but UK caught and passed Germany in things like fighter production during 1940, Germany couldnt afford to delay the schedule from what they did historically.

 

[ssnider]

I don't think the nazi controlled free state of Danzig would allow and allied "invasion force" to land and travel through the city without armed resistance. The war may well start early with the French and British fighting both Germany and Russia.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I don't think the nazi controlled free state of Danzig….

That's on me, I should have said the Polish port of Gdynia. The point is to get British and French forces into Poland without provoking war. I'll edit that now.

 

[GrauGeist]

Well, there is also a twist to this scenario:
If Germany decides not to invade, but the Soviets do, then I can just imagine Hitler doing his "Paris Jig" (little dance in front of the Eiffel Tower) a little early.

Now he has an excuse to attack the Soviet Union under the auspices of "saving Poland".

If this were the case, how would France and Britain view the Soviet attack on Poland?

 

[EwenS]

Was it when Hitler went into the Sudetenland he planned to back off if challenged? Had Germany assimilated Czech weapons and munitions manufacturing assets yet? He might have backed off a bit. Even Admiral Raeder thought he had until 1945. I really don't know. As there were few aircraft carrier vs. aircraft carrier battles, I never read up on this theater.
Yeah, I could have looked it up but I enjoy conversation more than homework.

Sudetenland was Oct 1938. The rest of Czechoslovakia was effectively annexed in mid-March 1939 a bare two weeks before this scenario kicks off.

Not sure how quickly the Czech armaments industry was assimilated. But the Czech steel industry continued to meet its overseas commitments right up to Aug 1939. The last deliveries of Czech armour plate for warships building in Britain only left Europe a few days before the German invasion of Poland on 1 Sept 1939.

There were NO carrier v carrier battles in European waters as neither Germany nor Italy ever got round to completing the carriers they set out to build.

 

[SaparotRob]

Which is why I never read up on it.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If this were the case, how would France and Britain view the Soviet attack on Poland?

Considering the Poles themselves were almost ambivalent about it, declining to declare war on Russia and ordering Polish forces to not engage the Russian invaders.....

 

[Peter Gunn]

Which is why I never read up on it.

You need to expand your horizons...

 

[SaparotRob]

No carriers.

 

[GrauGeist]

Sudetenland was Oct 1938. The rest of Czechoslovakia was effectively annexed in mid-March 1939 a bare two weeks before this scenario kicks off.

Not sure how quickly the Czech armaments industry was assimilated. But the Czech steel industry continued to meet its overseas commitments right up to Aug 1939. The last deliveries of Czech armour plate for warships building in Britain only left Europe a few days before the German invasion of Poland on 1 Sept 1939.

There were NO carrier v carrier battles in European waters as neither Germany nor Italy ever got round to completing the carriers they set out to build.

The Germans even had an opportunity for a carrier with the captured MN Joffre, which was 25% (or so) complete by 1940.

 

[SaparotRob]

All those wonder weapons and they couldn't finish Graf Zeppelin.