Mosquito Question

[HRBarland]

Hello Brain Trust,

I am a writer working on a story set in England during WW2. It is an alternative history with fantastical elements. Despite the Rule of Cool, I am trying to keep things as historical as possible where I can. The issue I have is that I had planned to have a Mosquito FB land in a field, pick up someone, and then fly out again.

My issue is that 'someone' is a troll (originally planned to be 8 feet tall and four across). Now I understand that the Mossie FB bomb bay is halved in length due to the weapons installed in the nose and there is no room for passengers outside of that bomb bay. I understand that the bomb bay is only about 2ft across and 1ft foot or so high, which is a bit smaller than I had anticipated. I thought maybe if I made the lanky rather then blocky (which causes other story problems) then the troll might squeeze her feet either side of the guns (if there's space).

Looking at a picture of the bomb bay roof of an FB, I found that there wasn't any real way for her to pull herself up either. I thought maybe, if the doors aren't fully closed she might be able to hold on if I had her punch her hands up through the just aft of the fuel tanks.

I had heard about bomb bay expansions (raising the internal ceiling of the bomb bays or bulging down), but wasn't sure how much extra space that provided.

To summarise:
1: Would it be possible for the troll punch her arms up and grab hold of something without damaging import linkages/cables/wiring/fuel lines or damaging the structural integrity of the plane?
2. Was the opening and closing of Mosquito bomb bay doors a binary thing (open or closed) or could they be partially closed? If binary, could a mechanically minded individual be able to jam the doors partially open?
3. Is there much space on either side of the guns or enough of a lip from the forward doors to hook your feet?
4. If there was an internal extension to the bomb bay, how much height could you gain?

A big post. Thanks to those who took to time to read it and thanks in advance to anyone who might be interested in answering my questions.

Cheers,
Heath

 

[Simon Thomas]

There is space in the back of the fuselage to fit a person. If your 8 ft person sat with their back against the bomb bay edge they could fit. CG could be an issue, but could be fixed by ballast in the nose and ballast in the rear that gets swapped out with the person when they get on board. Boarding is through the door on the RHS of the fuselage just behind and below the trailing edge of the wing. I would suggest this was not used in practice, as there was access to all sorts of cables and equipment. To shield everything would have added weight at the rear and access would have been hard to arrange.

1. Have a look at the photo in this link. This is a passenger being carried in the bomb bay of a Mosquito.

British Overseas Airways Corporation and Qantas, 1940-1945. A passenger travelling in the bomb bay of a De Havilland Mosquito of BOAC, on the fast freight service between Leuchars, Fife and Stockholm, Sweden Stock Photo - Alamy

Download this stock image: British Overseas Airways Corporation and Qantas, 1940-1945. A passenger travelling in the bomb bay of a De Havilland Mosquito of BOAC, on the fast freight service between Leuchars, Fife and Stockholm, Sweden. - 2T1KEJJ from Alamy's library of millions of high...

www.alamy.com

The top skin of the wing is taking quite a load. Punching large holes would compromise the structural integrity.

2. The doors were hydraulically driven, and the control had settings were up, neutral and down. After selecting up or down, the control would automatically return to neutral at the completion of the operation. I haven't worked with hydraulics for a while, but I expect that if you moved the control to neutral then the doors could be stopped at intermediate positions.

3. No idea, I have only been inside a PR version.

4. I would guess ~18 inches in the centre, but above there is the emergency dingy and an oil tank.

Hope this helps. An old friend is an author, and she wanted to know all about what would actually happen when flying a Cessna on Mars. Kind of fun working on that with her.

 

[HRBarland]

This is a fantastic answer. I am greatly appreciative of the time you took to answer it such detail. The photo you provided also seems to indicate that there was a bit more space in the bomb bay than I was led to believe. I think it won't be too much of a stretch to squeeze this character in.

I also looked at prop driven aircraft in lower gravity for a different story. Apparently you wouldn't need as much wing area but the engines would need superchargers to provide enough oxygen for them to work.

 

[Crimea_River]

That photo of the passenger accommodations appears to show that the two central fuel tanks have been removed. These would have taken up the space above the passenger's head.

There would be no room between the FB VI guns to thread the legs of an 8 foot troll per my photo of KA114:

The red/brown items at the top of this pic are the two fuel tanks I mentioned above. Note also that when the bomb bay doors are closed, the two jacks would pivot to be nearly vertical, thus also pinching off this space.

I agree with Simon on the ability to leave the bomb bay doors partially open by returning the selector to neutral before the retraction cycle is complete. I believe this was possible.

The access door to the rear fuselage would be a tight squeeze for a pudgy troll. I don't have the exact dimensions handy but the opening is only about 24 x 18 inches.

Things would be so much easier if you were using a late bomber version with the bulged bomb bay doors.

 

[Airframes]

I agree with Andy regarding the bomber version, and the bulged doors were fitted to the B.Mk.IX and B.Mk.XVI onwards, and also retrofitted to some B.Mk.IVs.
It was the bomber version that was used to ferry passengers from Sweden with BOAC aircraft, as shown in the photo.
These were fitted with a hammock-like stretcher for the passenger, along with an oxygen supply (and mask) and a sleeping bag.
It's highly unlikely that a FB version could accommodate even a "normal" sized person in the rear section of the bomb bay, although the rear fuselage section would be possible, as this area was used by OSS and SOE for an operator to receive messages, via a "S" phone, whilst orbiting high overhead.

At least your idea sounds reasonably plausible, unlike a novel I read about forty years ago, where nine Americans parachuted from the bomb bay of a Mossie - totally ridiculous !!

 

[HRBarland]

Thanks for all your comments, gentlemen. It is much appreciated.

Unfortunately, I have a timeline that requires the Mossie to be earlier in the war, so I can't go with the bulged option and I also wanted to have the FB for an interesting scene.

I am a little confused though. I came across this picture of an FB from underneath. In the words of Monty Python "It's only a model" but hopefully it isn't too far from reality.

Aft of the petrol tanks is ... well, I don't know what that is. It does appear to match up with the space that chap's head is in the picture of the BOAC Mosquito.

That space looks like it's behind the wings as well. Any idea of what that is?

Out of curiosity, if they did extend the bomb bay upward, wouldn't that mean removal, relocation of the fuel tanks?

 

[Wurger]

The section behind the fuel tanks at the inner flap area between the bulkhead no.3 and no.4, was a compartment for the hydraulic reservoir/accumulator ,TR 1143 radio set, Mk.IV bomb sight computer, batteries/accumulators, beam approach reciver and oxygen bottles. Also the bomb winch/loading crank handle.

the pic source: the net.

 

[SaparotRob]

Have you considered rescuing a hobbit?

 

[HRBarland]

The section behind the fuel tanks at the inner flap area between the bulkhead no.3 and no.4, was a compartment for the hydraulic reservoir/accumulator ,TR 1143 radio set, Mk.IV bomb sight computer, batteries/accumulators, beam approach reciver and oxygen bottles. Also the bomb winch/loading crank handle.

View attachment 798532

View attachment 798533
View attachment 798534
the pic source: the net.

Yeah, I don't think breaking through there is wise.

 

[HRBarland]

That would be easier but not dramatic enough, I'm afraid.

Although bundling a hobbit into a Mosquito and flying him to Mt Doom would have made a shorter book.

 

[Wurger]

Yeah, I don't think breaking through there is wise.

I agree. IMHO the guy may not be sitting towards the flight direction but backwards. Judging by the bomb bay door hydraulic cylinders seen in the pics I woud say there could be the pilot cockpit section behind him. And the compartment is at the area where the guns with the feeding system were installed initially.

 

[Engineman]

It is difficult to tell from the available pics but, no. I think his head is where the rust/red painted fuel tanks go and he is facing forwards. You can see the door hyd jack on the left of the picture has the lower hyd union on the right in pic, which would be on its left from the rear as seen on other pics. Also, behind his shoulders is the bottom edge of the rear spar, the bay area continues back into the distance as it should do and above his head is the reinforcing splitter that fits between the two tanks when they are there.

Eng

 

[Crimea_River]

From here:
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WWIIplanes/comments/ye5mvk/the_boac_mosquito_run_to_stockholm_19431944/#lightbox

 

[Crimea_River]

The section behind the fuel tanks at the inner flap area between the bulkhead no.3 and no.4, was a compartment for the hydraulic reservoir/accumulator ,TR 1143 radio set, Mk.IV bomb sight computer, batteries/accumulators, beam approach reciver and oxygen bottles. Also the bomb winch/loading crank handle.

Correct, however, all of that equipment is above the roof of the bomb bay and would not be visible in the photos presented so far. This is the interior of the TT35 at the DH Heritage Centre in Hatfield looking forward. Picture is my own.

 

[Wurger]

Correct, however, all of that equipment is above the roof of the bomb bay and would not be visible in the photos presented so far. This is the interior of the TT35 at the DH Heritage Centre in Hatfield looking forward. Picture is my own.

View attachment 798600

That's correct Andy. Of course I agree. The roof of the compartment can be noticed in the first pic I posted above and here below. It has the characteristic supports on its bottom. While in the pics with the guy in , we may notice a single long stiffener of the same shape that the one running along the centerline of the bay roof with the fuel tanks and the gun. IMHO the guy is sitting at the area but not at the rear part that had the roof for the compartment between the bulhead no.3 and no.4.

the source: http://www.arcair.com/awa01/701-800/awa780-Mosquito-Bowman/00.shtm

 

[PStickney]

This is a fantastic answer. I am greatly appreciative of the time you took to answer it such detail. The photo you provided also seems to indicate that there was a bit more space in the bomb bay than I was led to believe. I think it won't be too much of a stretch to squeeze this character in.

I also looked at prop driven aircraft in lower gravity for a different story. Apparently you wouldn't need as much wing area but the engines would need superchargers to provide enough oxygen for them to work.

Does it absolutely have to be a Mosquito? Since you mention a time period earlier in the war, consider a Lockheed Model 18 Lodestar, or, if it needs to be more shooty, a Ventura Ml I.
They're fast, have a lot more space inside, more usable load, and can get in and our of about the same fields. (Yes, teh Ventura has a lot more power than the Lodestar, but it's also got a lot more weight and drag. The numbers in the Flight Operating Handbooks check out. Cruise speeds at low and medium altitudes are about the same, with the Mosquito having more of an edge.

 

[PNW Guy]

I don't read nor do I understand this genre, but would a reader who will suspend their disbelief not accept that an 8 foot tall by 4 foot wide troll taking part in WW2 fits inside a Mossy?

Asking for a friend.

 

[SaparotRob]

I would. I like the mixing of different genres. I love the 1632 (Ring of Fire) series.

 

[HRBarland]

Does it absolutely have to be a Mosquito? Since you mention a time period earlier in the war, consider a Lockheed Model 18 Lodestar, or, if it needs to be more shooty, a Ventura Ml I.
They're fast, have a lot more space inside, more usable load, and can get in and our of about the same fields. (Yes, teh Ventura has a lot more power than the Lodestar, but it's also got a lot more weight and drag. The numbers in the Flight Operating Handbooks check out. Cruise speeds at low and medium altitudes are about the same, with the Mosquito having more of an edge.

Well, I've set it then as I want the squadron to eventually be aet up as early pathfinders (due to their supernatural abilities) and they are flying out of RAF bases. The plane needs to land and take off out of a field. The shooty bit was an idea that the troll (being incredibly strong) would be able to lift the tail section and direct the nose (and therefore its weaponry) at German troops who are in pursuit of our aforementioned trollm

 

[HRBarland]

I don't read nor do I understand this genre, but would a reader who will suspend their disbelief not accept that an 8 foot tall by 4 foot wide troll taking part in WW2 fits inside a Mossy?

Asking for a friend.

They probably would, but I would prefer to write a story that is at least plausible. I get annoyed about historical/physical impossibilities in stories, so if I'm trying to avoid mistakes if possible.