mysterious German airplane part

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899ccs

Recruit
4
2
May 10, 2019
I would like to humbly request assistance from the collective intelligence of this forum. I cannot seem to nail down a definitive or positive identification on a part.
Here is what I know.
This part was found in a crate with F4U Corsair parts and Northups P61 Black widow nightfighter. Specifically, DC motors and electrical components. The crate had been nailed shut and the newspapers used to pack the items were dated 1948. 71 years. That is a long time. The crate belonged to a long retired college professor. A professor whom was formerly associated with NACA National advisory committee for Aeronautics
where he worked on wind tunnel technology. He was involved in some airfoil stuff and wave drag but was more effective in the development of Superchargers for the B17
and Bells X-1. within NACAs Compressibility Research Division. Later he designed missile guidance systems and regarded himself as a genuine rocket scientist. During the war years he would become evasive and vague on what he was involved with directly but he would elude to places such as Langley, White sands, Bell labs, Grumman, MIT, Wright Patterson. He knew stuff. He died of old age recently and that is when i found the crate.
HERE IS WHAT i THINK I KNOW.
Taking into account that this part has an incomplete data plate with only the manufactures part number on it and taking into account the manufacturer cannot positively identify it I speculate that this part is a prototype that was captured by US forces in Germany at the end of the war. The manufacture is Gebr Becker. I speculate that the part was built during WW2 because Gebr Becker was Dismantled and banned from production after the fall of the Reich, probably in part to its use of slave labor from concentration camps. Two or three years later it reopens under a different name. The data plate on this part is different than a typical Luftwaffe plate but certainly from the late 30's to end of WW2 it says Gebr Becker . The design, fit and finish and overall quality of the part is astonishing. I speculate this ends up on my rocket scientists desk for analysis and you can see where he partially dismantled it probably turned in his report than just kept it.
Why I believe it is aircraft related.
The design: Radial multi cylinder design. Shaft driven and fasteners drilled for safety wire. The overall quality again, says to me , aircraft.
The manufacture: I contacted the USA branch of Becker Pumps. Sent photos. The rep from the company says it "Was designed to assist starting the engines on the Messerschmidt fighter planes." He than adds " I think"
So here I am. I have gone as far as I can. I have scoured the web for any thing similar ... any info. Nothing. This very well could be the only known example of a "Elektro Luftpressor" in the world.
I am not willing to just throw up photos unless there is a genuine interest in taking a look It is so mysterious.... I am stumped..
 
...
Why I believe it is aircraft related.
The design: Radial multi cylinder design. Shaft driven and fasteners drilled for safety wire. The overall quality again, says to me , aircraft.
The manufacture: I contacted the USA branch of Becker Pumps. Sent photos. The rep from the company says it "Was designed to assist starting the engines on the Messerschmidt fighter planes." He than adds " I think"
So here I am. I have gone as far as I can. I have scoured the web for any thing similar ... any info. Nothing. This very well could be the only known example of a "Elektro Luftpressor" in the world.

Welcome to the forum.
Messerschmitt fighters never used radial engines, apart the one-offs/prototypes.

I am not willing to just throw up photos unless there is a genuine interest in taking a look It is so mysterious.... I am stumped..

The genuine interest will be shown even more when couple of photos of the item of interest are posted.
 
Messerschmitt had inertia starters no pumps

If it is German it will have numbers on it like If not its not German. This thread is really worthless without pictures. Seems i remember more of these kind of threads and in a little while the "part" wll be on sale. Or is it a train/tunnel story?

1557515628632.jpeg


And will look like bf 109 inertia starter - Google Search


1557515927938.jpeg
 
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Yea, with no photos, very limited description and not even listing the Mfg Part Number - there is not too much we can do to help you.
 
I apologize for assuming things I have had a nightmare two weeks and this thing has gotten me flamed and accused and just treated poorly..partly my fault for not knowing to be a bit more sensitive to the survivors and family of survivors. So here are some photos and I again apologize for the cloak and dagger crap. Without trying to come off as pretentious or disrespectful, I realize the 109's engine is not a radial but a V-12, what I was saying was this mysterious part is a radial design like an aircraft engine except even number of cylinders... my photos don't show any scale reference but this thing is approx 9 to 10 " in diameter
 

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That's definitely an air compressor.

There were some systems on various Luftwaffe aircraft that were pneumatic, the one that comes to mind is the pneumatic ejection seats on the He219. While the He280 jet used stored air for it's ejection seat system, the He219 had grapefruit-sized booster tanks that were pressurized by a compressor.
 
The manufacture is Gebr Becker.

Just a few notes, Gebr. Becker a firm that manufactures vacuum pumps and compressors; Gebr. is short for 'gebruder', or brother, the company is Maschinenfabrik Gebr. Becker specialising in pneumatic systems, vacuum pumps and compressors for industry and scientific applications. The company still exists. The other company mentioned is Askania, which was based in Berlin. Askania manufactured a range of scientific instrumentation, including aircraft instruments and still exist as a precision watch manufacturer. Its products bear names such as Elly Beinhorn (a German pilot) and Taifun (quite possibly associated with the Bf 108), Tempelhof and Tegel (both aerodromes in Berlin, or at least former since T'hof has closed) and other Berlin associated names. Of immediate note was that the autopilot fitted to the Fi 103 or V 1 flying bomb was manufactured by Askania.

I'd hazard a guess that it night have been associated with instrumentation as much as powerplant, although it's quite a chunky wee thing, so could be engine related. The splines in the sprocket hole in the last picture suggest that it is possibly engine driven at least.
 
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Dont think airplane related nor wartime. Most of the id strip would have been filled in. This sat on the back of air cylinder.
 
Hey guys,

It may be a form of air driven motor. If it is then the air pressure/volume is converted into mechanical torque through the movement of the pistons/crankshaft, driving something via the internal spline. The L kompr 100 probably means it is designed to use 100 Liters of compressed air per minute. There may be internal gearing but it looks to me as if it was designed to be bolted onto some item, maybe a gear box, although such an air driven motor could generate a fairly high amount of torque all by itself.

I do not know if it would be capable of starting a large piston or jet engine by itself, but if it was attached to a clutched or throw-out gear box it might be able to. It could certainly turn a valve, or a generator, or some other accessory.
 
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My additional thoughts are what in the world would need six cylinders in an air compressor? I thought maybe Scuba or Dentistry but the fit and finish on this item is very high quality. Then I thought maybe diesel big bus or truck but still came up with nothing. Then there is the incomplete data plate and the fact that it turned up in Jacks lab under the work bench in a sealed crate with USN fighter parts. It has to be some kind of aircraft part and I like Grauegeist ejection seat theory although one might be hard pressed to find and illustration of the system in it's entirety if even at all. The radial design would suggest heat was a problem possibly but I can think of no other benefit for the multiple cylinder arranged radially. I think the next step is to tear it down and inspect the internals. I will get some pics up of that shortly thank you thank you
 
Hey 899ccs,

Usually 6 cylinders (as opposed to 1-5) would be used in order to keep the size down and/or to keep a smoother air flow while delivering the required volume/pressure of air. This would be particularly useful if the output fed directly to the application rather than to an air receiver/buffer/reservoir tank.
 
There's several illustrations out there for the He219's ejection seat system, but I don't recall seeing a compressor or a storage tank, just the several small booster tanks in the system between the Pilot's seat and Rear seat...
 
Hey 899ccs,

Is the mechanism in good enough shape that you can (slowly, very slowly) turn the internal spline with your fingers (make sure there is room for the spline to turn a bit and not twist your finger) or some other appropriate object?
 
Hey guys,

It may be a form of air driven motor...
Thought I'd point out that a pneumatic motor usually doesn't have pistons, but rather has vanes as it's more efficient in transferring air flow to create motion.

An air compressor, on the other hand, does have pistons along with cooling fins because the act of compression creates heat.
 
Hey GrauGeist,

In todays world you are correct when you say that rotary vane type air motors are far more common in use. But it was not always so, and there are still applications in todays world that use linear type air motors (aka air driven piston motors).

The three primary advantages of pneumatic motors over other types of motors are compactness, power density, and they can maintain their full torque to a full stop under load. Other advantages are on/off and speed/torque control through air flow regulation, and safety in explosive environments (i.e. no sparks and low heat).

The air driven piston motor has almost instantaneous torque at low rpm with no additional gearing needed, due to the mechanical advantage of the crank shaft. For the same torque a rotary vane air motor would require either a reduction gear box or a significantly larger overall diameter.

As for the heating/cooling factor it mostly depends on the environment the motor is intended to be used in. The expanding air does cause a cooling effect in the cylinder, but if run at high enough rpm the motor will still require additional cooling.
 
Thomas P, it spins over and pops when each cylinder compresses and overcomes it's reed valves, the compressed air feeds through a port into the round ring and exits through that tube in between the cylinders. It does have pistons and steel sleeves in the cylinders. I wonder if this thing actually compressed air. Maybe it compressed Propane or some other refrigerant. It is excessively engineered to have just been compressing air. So let me get it apart and see what the guts look like maybe I'll find a clue in side
 
Hi all,
I'm german and no way near a plane or WW2 expert, I'm just reading along sometimes... "Luftpresser" is a rather weird (or not a proper) word. It maybe a short form of "Luft-Kompressor" the "LKompr 100" could certainly support that.
As Luft is mentioned so clearly probably no gas involved ?
and from my limited technical knowledge there is no engine type that uses the "kompr"

regarding the companies mentioned on the label:
"Hersteller" is manufacturer
"Lieferer" again is a slightly odd term but means the company that delivered the part. (They bought it from Gebr. Becker and traded it on or made it part of one of their constructions) Todays word would be "Lieferant".

"Gebr." by the way is short for "Gebrüder" which simply means Brothers and is quite common in oldfashioned company names.

cheers from Munich - Jo
 

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