need help with these manuals

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by thedab, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. thedab

    thedab Member

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    which one of these manuals is right they both released november 42

    one say that 1.42 ata is blocked and the other one don't,so which one right

    this is from DB605A-B motoren-handbuch
    DB605Atab.jpg
    and this is Bf109G-2 flagzeug-handbuch
    DB605A_ban_Jun-10Nov42_G2FzgHB-T6-Full.JPG

    so was 1.42 ata baned in november 42

    thanks thedab
     
  2. tomo pauk

    tomo pauk Creator of Interesting Threads

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    Would you be so kind to post a whole DB-605A manual?
     
  3. thedab

    thedab Member

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  4. Aozora

    Aozora Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK 1.42 ata was banned starting in mid-late June 1942: British Air Intelligence translation of RLM report on 1.42 ata.

    This G-6 test WW II Aircraft Performance - Bf 109 G6 Meßrief is dated 8 April 1943, showing that it was being tested using 1.42 ata. Use of 1.42 ata was not cleared again until August 1943.
     
  5. rinkol

    rinkol Member

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    I recall that the DB 601E was not without problems. I've wondered if the issues with the higher power DB 601 and early DB 605 engines were contributing factors to the He 177 engine problems. The operation of a heavy bomber would impose heavy demands on the engines for takeoff and climb.
     
  6. Mike Williams

    Mike Williams Active Member

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    Please note the comment on the Meßrief page next to Start- und Notleistung: Vorläufig gesperrt nach VT-Anweisung Nr.2206, i.e. Take-off and emergency power/1.42 ata is provisionally blocked/disabled in accordance with VT instruction Nr.2206. This comment appears in several Me 109 G Meßrief that I have, such as Meßrief für Bf 109 G-2 10798 dated 8 September 1942 for example.
     
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  7. Aozora

    Aozora Well-Known Member

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    Hi Mike, I should have noticed that. Why was the ban imposed in the first place?
     
  8. Mike Williams

    Mike Williams Active Member

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    Below please find excerpts from various documents relating to Me 109 G engine limitations during the mid war period that might help with context:

    Flugzeugmuster BF 109 G-1 mit motor DB 605A Kennblatt:
    The figures indicated refer to combat and climbing power. n - 2600 U/min:plade - 1,3 ata. Take-off and emergency power are not as yet approved for the 605/A.
    Die angegebenen Leistungen beziehen sich auf kampf und steigleistung. n - 2600 U/min :plade - 1.3 ata. Start und notleistung ist für 605/A zurzeit noch nicht freigegeben

    Bf109 G-2 mit Motor DB 605 Bedienungsvorschrift-F1 Juni 1942
    *Note! "Take off and emergency power" is blocked and may not be used. *Achtung! Die "Start und Notleistung" darf nicht benutzt werden, sie ist deshalb blockiert.

    Bf109 G-2 Bedienungsvorschrift-F1 Juli 1942
    *Note! "Take off and emergency power" is blocked and may not be used. *Achtung! Die "Start und Notleistung" darf nicht benutzt werden, sie ist deshalb blockiert.

    DB 605 A-B Moteren-Karte 9 October 1942
    Take-off and emergency power is disabled until further notice, thus 2650 U/min (2600 U/min +2%) may not be exceeded in any flight attitude.
    Die Start und Notleistung ist bis auf Widerruf gesperrt, es dürfen somit 2650 U/min (2600 U/min +2%) in keiner Fluglage überschritten werden.

    Bf 109 G-4 Meßrief
    Take off and emergency power: Provisionally closed after VT instruction Nr.2206. Start und Notleistung: Vorläufig gesperrt nach VT-Anweisung Nr.2206

    Bf109 G-2, G-4, G-6 Bedienungsvorschrift-F1 Ausgabe Juni 1943
    "Take-off and emergency power" may not be used; this stage is blocked in order to prevent over pressure. Die Leistungsstufe 'Start -und Notleistung' darf nicht benutzt werden; um Überdrücken zu verhindern, ist diese Stufe blockiert.

    Bf109 G-2 Flugzeug-Handbuch Ausgabe Oktober 1943
    Take-off and emergency power: may not be used, is blocked. Start- und Notleistung: Darf nicht benutzt werden, ist blockiert.

    Bf109 G-4/R3, G-6/R3 Bedienungsvorschrift-F1 Ausgabe Februar 1944
    Take-off and emergency power: may not be used, is blocked. Start- und Notleistung: Darf nicht benutzt werden, ist blockiert.


    Aozora, the translated Technical Sheet refers to breakdown in the DB 605 engines as a result of pistons burning through, so that appears to be one factor in the ban.
     
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  9. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

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    small translation error: "Überdrücken" in this context is not over pressure, it's in the sense of "moving the throttle lever beyond position of climb/combat power"
     
  10. Mike Williams

    Mike Williams Active Member

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    Thanks Denniss!
     
  11. thedab

    thedab Member

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    Nice thanks for that,just what I need.

    Just one more thing,any one know what this mean ( Start-und Notlerstung ist nur zugelassen,wenr eine automatische Begrenzung der Drehzahl nk=2700 U/min

    Vorhanden ist,die vom piloten nicht ausgeschaltet werden kann) it from a 601E engine manual
     
  12. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

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    only permitted if engine rpm is governed to 2700 rpm without an option for the pilot to override this limit
     
  13. thedab

    thedab Member

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    that great thanks
     
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