North American A-36 Apache

[Skyediamonds]

Good info. I'm currently modeling a "D" Mustang to be finished as Big Beautiful Doll in natural metal from a wooden Guillow's kit. I thought I knew a lot on the Mustangs but as I got deeper into the build & read more information of the plane, I found out I knew very little. Please keep up the good info!

 

[Barrett]

Ref. Big Beautiful Doll: as aces assn. secretary I got to know John Landers a bit more than casually. Big, strapping extroverted Texan. His 78FG guys said he taxied at half throttle and flew at full throttle. Group CO at age 24. Once or twice he screened some of his combat film, all in color, and it was im-pressive. Will always remember how his tracers followed a vehicle through a 90 deg. left turn on a narrow road and overtook the target. I asked, "Colonel, how'd you do that?" He said "Rudder, son, lots of rudder." But he had to be cross controlling to keep the ball centered...

 

[MIflyer]

I have a 1:18 scale 21st Century P-51D in Big Beautful Doll markings I have never taken out of the box. I was in Wal-Mart several years ago and they had them on clearance for $25. I should have bought several.

 

[Skyediamonds]

Wow! Thank you Barrett for that insight on John Landers. Not everyday one comes across an individual who personally met such an ace as John Landers.

Miflyer: yes! I would've felt the same way. Always with hindsight do we "learn." Hope that model is still around. It should be priceless by now.

 

[MIflyer]

Yes, I still have it, in the box, never opened.

If I wait long enough I figure one day I'll be able to trade it for a 1:1 scale version.

 

[Skyediamonds]

LoL... I was going to ask if you had opened the box. If so, I would've asked if the decals included cockpit stenciling. If so, I would've scoured around on eBay & Internet for another large plastic Mustang kit, throw away everything but the stenciling decals. I'm working on the cockpit interior of my nearly scratched Guillow's Mustang (see my build thread under modeling projects) & the stenciling has proven to be a challenge.

 

[GrauGeist]

What is a "P-51-1"?

 

[MIflyer]

P-51-1 was the USAAF designation for the NA-91, what the RAF called the Mustang Mk1A. After being fitted with cameras the USAAF called them the F-6A. They retained their four 20MM guns and were used in N Africa and the Med.

The USAAF designation for the first production NA-73 aircraft, which the RAF called Mustang Mk1, was the XP-51, two of which the USAAF got from the initial RAF production run. The RAF also bought 300 NA-83, which they also called Mustang 1, and which the USAAF never had any.

The NA-99 was the P-51A in the USAAF, and became the F-6A or F-6B when it got cameras. I think the only Allison Mustangs used by the USAAF in the ETO were F-6A or F-6B. In the RAF the NA-99 was the Mustang II. The NA-99 had the 1200 hp V-1710-81 engine, which seems to have been set up for higher altitude performance than the earlier Mustangs. I'd have to look up the specs on the engine.

There is a tendency to call all Allison powered Mustangs the P-51A but that is not really accurate.

At that time the first production model of any aircraft had no letter designation. The first P-40's were called just P-40. In the case of the P-39 they got carried away with designating minor modifications and used up a lot of letters as result. Eventually they used the letter plus dash number, so that in the case of the P-47D you could have both bubble top and razorback D models, with dash numbers for changes and then dash letters after the numbers to indicate if it was built in Farmingdale or Evansville. Today we use Block numbers.

 

[Navalwarrior]

One interesting thing I discovered that an A-36 unit acquired some P-51-1 aircraft, armed with four 20MM guns, and used them as well to hit suitable targets. I saw a cannon armed P-51 in the video 'A Day with the A-36's" and it turned out that was the reason.

So you could have a diorama with a mix of A-36's and P-51-1.

Resp:
The cannon armed Mustangs were taken from the British order (Mustang MkIA) and became P-51-1 (and -2); then again redesignated F-6A, for photo recon in USAAF service. There were no fittings on these aircraft to carry bombs. These Allison engined Mustangs retained the British 20 MM cannons. Many operated in the same Theater as the A-36A dive bomber. No A-36As carried cannons, only 4 to 6 50 cal MG.
Note that the A-36A was the first Mustang frame variant to be drop tank capable. NAA simply plumbed the bomb racks, even though the contract did not call for plumbing. So when NAA began to produce the P-51A (on the same production line as the A-36A, but well after many dive bombers were produced) they kept the wing mounted bomb racks/plumbing.
Apache as well as Invader, were used to designate these aircraft; however, the British name 'Mustang' tended to push these titles aside. I believe that since the RAF had been using 'Mustang' a year or so before the names Apache/Invader were introduced, and aircraft recognition cards issued (to AA batteries and Naval forces) referred to the airframe, multiple names could cause confusion . . . and slow the 'mental' reaction time whether it was friend or foe. Mustang was just easier, although technically incorrect.

 

[ColFord]

The US Allison engined P-51s were not fitted in USAAF service with British 20mm cannon, but US manufactured 20mm cannon, produced by Oldsmobile to the basic Hispano 20mm cannon design. The US manufactured 20mm cannon were included in the P-51s supplied to the RAF, however the RAF armament trials and initial in service use identified a series of major issues with the US manufactured 20mm cannon, the NAA designed mounts and the US manufactured ammunition. As a result the RAF initiated a major program to fix the issues, resulting in replacement of all the US manufactured 20mm cannon in the RAF Mustang Mk.IAs with British manufactured Hispano Mk.II* 20mm cannon, revised ammunition loading, revised case and link ejection system and greatly beefed up cannon mounting. A visual sign of these changes being implemented, is on the USAAF P-51s, EXTERNAL recoil spring ahead of the wing cannon shroud, on the RAF Mustang Mk.IAs, INTERNAL recoil spring inside the wing cannon shroud and basically the bare cannon barrel and muzzle projecting forwards of the shroud.

Certainly there is much discussion and research gone into the Mustang, Apache and Invader names and their use relating to various variants of the P-51/A-36 family of airframes. Essentially, Apache was a NAA internal marketing name being considered as the name for the P-51/A-36 family of aircraft for sale to the USAAF. The RAF had selected the name Mustang for their aircraft some time earlier and to avoid confusion NAA dropped the use of Apache before it was ever considered for adoption. However the name did show up as result of early marketing material produced by NAA when they were trying to generate interest in the USA with the USAAF. The RAF use of the name Mustang stuck. Again, due to mis-communication between various parties the names Apache and Invader did pop up in various official documentation - as an example I have a copy of a US War Office issued aircraft recognition manual produced in early 1944, that shows a RAF Mustang Mk.I type aircraft silhouette, with aircraft name shown as Mustang, with an annotation about dive bomber variant also being known as 'Invader'. Presented with the documented evidence that the A-36 was never offfically named Apache in USAAF service, the USAF Museum has amended the story board in front of the A-36 on display in their collection to remove use of the Apache name, other than peripheral mention in the text regarding the confusion over the name. The official wartime USAAF/War Office list of aircraft types, designations and approved names, did include Mustang for the P-51/A-36 family, but did not include Apache or Invader.

The RAF removed the bomb racks that were fitted to their P-51As/Mustang Mk.IIs, as they were all allocated to use as low level tactical reconnaissance aircraft, their radius of action in the ETO on internal fuel was sufficient for RAF requirements, so no need for the racks and associated tanks. Taking them off gave a few more knots in airspeed. Late in WW2, some experiments were being conducted on RAF Mustang Mk.IIs on forward facing camera installations to accept large negative format cameras. This was to allow coverage of linear targets as an aircraft flew towards them, so flying along rivers, canals, roads, etc. Part of this experimentation included fitting 35mm cine cameras into modified drop tanks, hence the need for something once again to put the drop tank onto. Also produced great quality film footage, much better than standard gun camera footage, of low level strafing attacks.

RAF modified the Allison engines on their Mustang Mk.IIs similar to what they had done with the earlier engines in the Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA, to produce better low down power and response, operating at 6,000ft and below. That was the prime operating range for the sorties that they flew, based around the camera and camera lense combinations they used in both the oblique and vertical camera mounts and what was considered to be the best range for visual acquisition and identification by the Tac/R pilots of targets of interest on the ground from the air.

 

[MIflyer]

RAF modified the Allison engines on their Mustang Mk.IIs similar to what they had done with the earlier engines in the Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA, to produce better low down power and response, operating at 6,000ft and below.

What were those mods?

 

[ColFord]

The major modifications were changes to the supercharger impellor, the supercharger gear ratios and the automatic boost controls. There were a lot of smaller detail modifications that had been identified and developed over time as the RAF gained experience in wringing the best peformance, reliability and longevity out of the Allison engines they were using in their Mustangs.

 

[Navalwarrior]

The US Allison engined P-51s were not fitted in USAAF service with British 20mm cannon, but US manufactured 20mm cannon, produced by Oldsmobile to the basic Hispano 20mm cannon design. The US manufactured 20mm cannon were included in the P-51s supplied to the RAF, however the RAF armament trials and initial in service use identified a series of major issues with the US manufactured 20mm cannon, the NAA designed mounts and the US manufactured ammunition. As a result the RAF initiated a major program to fix the issues, resulting in replacement of all the US manufactured 20mm cannon in the RAF Mustang Mk.IAs with British manufactured Hispano Mk.II* 20mm cannon, revised ammunition loading, revised case and link ejection system and greatly beefed up cannon mounting. A visual sign of these changes being implemented, is on the USAAF P-51s, EXTERNAL recoil spring ahead of the wing cannon shroud, on the RAF Mustang Mk.IAs, INTERNAL recoil spring inside the wing cannon shroud and basically the bare cannon barrel and muzzle projecting forwards of the shroud.

Certainly there is much discussion and research gone into the Mustang, Apache and Invader names and their use relating to various variants of the P-51/A-36 family of airframes. Essentially, Apache was a NAA internal marketing name being considered as the name for the P-51/A-36 family of aircraft for sale to the USAAF. The RAF had selected the name Mustang for their aircraft some time earlier and to avoid confusion NAA dropped the use of Apache before it was ever considered for adoption. However the name did show up as result of early marketing material produced by NAA when they were trying to generate interest in the USA with the USAAF. The RAF use of the name Mustang stuck. Again, due to mis-communication between various parties the names Apache and Invader did pop up in various official documentation - as an example I have a copy of a US War Office issued aircraft recognition manual produced in early 1944, that shows a RAF Mustang Mk.I type aircraft silhouette, with aircraft name shown as Mustang, with an annotation about dive bomber variant also being known as 'Invader'. Presented with the documented evidence that the A-36 was never offfically named Apache in USAAF service, the USAF Museum has amended the story board in front of the A-36 on display in their collection to remove use of the Apache name, other than peripheral mention in the text regarding the confusion over the name. The official wartime USAAF/War Office list of aircraft types, designations and approved names, did include Mustang for the P-51/A-36 family, but did not include Apache or Invader.

The RAF removed the bomb racks that were fitted to their P-51As/Mustang Mk.IIs, as they were all allocated to use as low level tactical reconnaissance aircraft, their radius of action in the ETO on internal fuel was sufficient for RAF requirements, so no need for the racks and associated tanks. Taking them off gave a few more knots in airspeed. Late in WW2, some experiments were being conducted on RAF Mustang Mk.IIs on forward facing camera installations to accept large negative format cameras. This was to allow coverage of linear targets as an aircraft flew towards them, so flying along rivers, canals, roads, etc. Part of this experimentation included fitting 35mm cine cameras into modified drop tanks, hence the need for something once again to put the drop tank onto. Also produced great quality film footage, much better than standard gun camera footage, of low level strafing attacks.

RAF modified the Allison engines on their Mustang Mk.IIs similar to what they had done with the earlier engines in the Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA, to produce better low down power and response, operating at 6,000ft and below. That was the prime operating range for the sorties that they flew, based around the camera and camera lense combinations they used in both the oblique and vertical camera mounts and what was considered to be the best range for visual acquisition and identification by the Tac/R pilots of targets of interest on the ground from the air.

Resp:
Great info! Thanks much. I always wondered about whos cannons went into the Mustang MkIA/F-6A. Every photo (they were few) showed Mustangs at NAA without cannons fitted, so I believed that British made cannons were installed once the aircraft reached England. And I believed the British furnished the Americans with cannons for their F-6As. Wrong again. Correct me if I am wrong, but the RAF never fitted Malcolm hoods on their camera outfitted Mustangs. I have seen USAAF F-6As and F-6Bs with Malcolm hoods, but only in the ETO.

 

[ColFord]

RAF did fit Malcolm Hoods to the majority of the Mustang Mk.IIs and best as research to date has been able to determine, one Mustang Mk.IA which was used as the initial test aircraft for the Malcolm Hood installation including the air trials which including in flight jettison trials. Plus, again from best information research to date can determine, a handful at most of Mustang Mk.IA, very late in operational career - late 1944 to early 1945 timeframe. Using the Malcolm Hood with the oblique camera(s) fitted required either use of camera(s) with short length lenses that did not protrude beyond the cutouts in the rear perspex quarter windows, or the pilot getting strapped in, closing the Malcolm Hood and then the photo section staff installing the camera(s) with attached lenses into their mounts and putting the rear perspex quarter windows back in place. Reverse procedure on landing where the pilot could not exit until the cameras were removed. If you go to the Imperial War Museum website, and under the photo search function, search "FRE 14828" that should bring up a photograph of a RAF groundcrew member installing a F.24 reconnaissance camera into a Mustang Mk.II fitted with a Malcolm Hood. In the photo you can see the track along the side of the cockpit and quarter windows on which the Malcolm Hood travels, with the edge of the Malcolm Hood seen behind the ground crew member. "FRE 14825" gives another angle, which also shows the whip aerial on the spine of the aircraft that replaces the normal post/blade antenna that is fitted as a part of the modifications for the Malcolm Hood. The accompanying description for those two photos makes use of the US "F-5" designation for the aircraft as it is based off a US wartime photo caption for us in the USA.

Backtracking a bit, also in IWM collection, photo "HU 110061" shows one of the A-36s used by the RAF in the MTO, also "FRE 14894" shows another.

 

[Navalwarrior]

RAF did fit Malcolm Hoods to the majority of the Mustang Mk.IIs and best as research to date has been able to determine, one Mustang Mk.IA which was used as the initial test aircraft for the Malcolm Hood installation including the air trials which including in flight jettison trials. Plus, again from best information research to date can determine, a handful at most of Mustang Mk.IA, very late in operational career - late 1944 to early 1945 timeframe. Using the Malcolm Hood with the oblique camera(s) fitted required either use of camera(s) with short length lenses that did not protrude beyond the cutouts in the rear perspex quarter windows, or the pilot getting strapped in, closing the Malcolm Hood and then the photo section staff installing the camera(s) with attached lenses into their mounts and putting the rear perspex quarter windows back in place. Reverse procedure on landing where the pilot could not exit until the cameras were removed. If you go to the Imperial War Museum website, and under the photo search function, search "FRE 14828" that should bring up a photograph of a RAF groundcrew member installing a F.24 reconnaissance camera into a Mustang Mk.II fitted with a Malcolm Hood. In the photo you can see the track along the side of the cockpit and quarter windows on which the Malcolm Hood travels, with the edge of the Malcolm Hood seen behind the ground crew member. "FRE 14825" gives another angle, which also shows the whip aerial on the spine of the aircraft that replaces the normal post/blade antenna that is fitted as a part of the modifications for the Malcolm Hood. The accompanying description for those two photos makes use of the US "F-5" designation for the aircraft as it is based off a US wartime photo caption for us in the USA.

Backtracking a bit, also in IWM collection, photo "HU 110061" shows one of the A-36s used by the RAF in the MTO, also "FRE 14894" shows another.

Resp:
I know that the RAF received six A-36As WW from the local USAAF in Luqa (Malta) in July 1943. One survived to be used by the RAF 112 to transition pilots to the soon to be arriving Mustang Mk III. All photos show lattice framed canopies. On an early mission, one of the RAF A-36As shot down an RAF Spitfire when two Spitifres "jumped" the Mustangs in error.

 

[MIflyer]

Okay, so they basically did the same kind of engine mods they did with the "Clipped, Cropped, and Clapped" LF Spit V as an answer to the FW-190 in that same time frame. That makes perfect sense. Thanks!

I understand that the A-36A's the RAF got in the Med were for use not as dive bombers but rather for low altitude recon, since they had no Mustang Mk1's in the theater. They tried using Spitfires to escort the recon airplanes and found they could not stay with the A-36A's. I never heard of them escorting the Mk1's in the ETO. The RAF got one A-36A in England and took some very nice and often reproduced photos of it, leading some people to conclude that they operated the type.

I read where some Canadian pilots flying Mustang Mk1's took them on a long range flight into Germany and got into the pattern at a Luftwaffe training base.

 

[Navalwarrior]

Okay, so they basically did the same kind of engine mods they did with the "Clipped, Cropped, and Clapped" LF Spit V as an answer to the FW-190 in that same time frame. That makes perfect sense. Thanks!

I understand that the A-36A's the RAF got in the Med were for use not as dive bombers but rather for low altitude recon, since they had no Mustang Mk1's in the theater. They tried using Spitfires to escort the recon airplanes and found they could not stay with the A-36A's. I never heard of them escorting the Mk1's in the ETO. The RAF got one A-36A in England and took some very nice and often reproduced photos of it, leading some people to conclude that they operated the type.

I read where some Canadian pilots flying Mustang Mk1's took them on a long range flight into Germany and got into the pattern at a Luftwaffe training base.

Okay, so they basically did the same kind of engine mods they did with the "Clipped, Cropped, and Clapped" LF Spit V as an answer to the FW-190 in that same time frame. That makes perfect sense. Thanks!

I understand that the A-36A's the RAF got in the Med were for use not as dive bombers but rather for low altitude recon, since they had no Mustang Mk1's in the theater. They tried using Spitfires to escort the recon airplanes and found they could not stay with the A-36A's. I never heard of them escorting the Mk1's in the ETO. The RAF got one A-36A in England and took some very nice and often reproduced photos of it, leading some people to conclude that they operated the type.

I read where some Canadian pilots flying Mustang Mk1's took them on a long range flight into Germany and got into the pattern at a Luftwaffe training base.

Resp:
Yes to the RAF using A-36A for tactical recon in the MTO, but they also used them to harass enemy ground forces when spotted. Similarly to the use of Mustangs MkI/MkIA in the ETO. Yes to MkIs entering German airspace (the 1st Allied single engine fighter to cross the German border since Dunkirk). They were escorting Wellingtons, I believe.

 

[MIflyer]

I was just reading the Aug 2018 issue of Flight Journal on the use of the Spitfire as a dive bomber in the ETO after D-Day. The RAF concluded what they really needed was some A-36A's but all they had were Spitfires, which did not prove to be very suitable. They did equip Mustang III's with bombs and use them in the tactical fighter bomber role in France starting in 1944, both before and after the Normandy invasion. That surprised me because I had always assumed every Merlin Mustang we had in that time frame was going for fighter escort.

 

[Navalwarrior]

I was just reading the Aug 2018 issue of Flight Journal on the use of the Spitfire as a dive bomber in the ETO after D-Day. The RAF concluded what they really needed was some A-36A's but all they had were Spitfires, which did not prove to be very suitable. They did equip Mustang III's with bombs and use them in the tactical fighter bomber role in France starting in 1944, both before and after the Normandy invasion. That surprised me because I had always assumed every Merlin Mustang we had in that time frame was going for fighter escort.

Resp:
Interesting that the RAF thought of the A-36A. I guess they knew of the excellent results the USAAF had with the A-36A as a dive bomber in the Med. At one point thought was given to reinstating them on NAA's production line, but knew it would interfere with Merlin engine Mustang production. The US Bomber Squ that migrated to Italy prized them over their old P-40s and even thought they were better than the P-47s that were phased in to replace the A-36A and worn out P-40s. The various units flipped a coin to see who would keep the A-36As.

 

[ColFord]

Resp:
I know that the RAF received six A-36As WW from the local USAAF in Luqa (Malta) in July 1943. One survived to be used by the RAF 112 to transition pilots to the soon to be arriving Mustang Mk III. All photos show lattice framed canopies. On an early mission, one of the RAF A-36As shot down an RAF Spitfire when two Spitifres "jumped" the Mustangs in error.

At least three of the A-36s in Luqa in 1943 were the surviving A-36s from those that had been loaned by the USAAF to the RAF and used by 1436 Strategic Reconniassance Flight. If my memory serves me without having to dig back through my files, they were not handed back to the USAAF after finishing with 1436 SRF, but were kept on with the RAF for initially 'hacks' but then to transition pilots on RAF and RAAF Squadrons in the MTO/Italy that were converting from P-40s to P-51s. No.3 Sqdn RAAF used two of the A-36s for their pre-conversion familiarisation training.

Resp:
Yes to the RAF using A-36A for tactical recon in the MTO, but they also used them to harass enemy ground forces when spotted. Similarly to the use of Mustangs MkI/MkIA in the ETO. Yes to MkIs entering German airspace (the 1st Allied single engine fighter to cross the German border since Dunkirk). They were escorting Wellingtons, I believe.

AND

I read where some Canadian pilots flying Mustang Mk1's took them on a long range flight into Germany and got into the pattern at a Luftwaffe training base.

Don't get me started on how these stories get out there or started, but since you have mentioned them.

First long range bomber escort mission outside range of Spitfires & Hurricanes based in the UK, by Mustang Mk.I aircraft of No.268 Squadron RAF, escorting Bostons of No.88 Squadron RAF for a raid on Den Helder in the Netherlands, 16 September 1942. So long range bomber escort, conducted by a Squadron of Mustang Mk.I aircraft of Army Co-operation Command, not Fighter Command. Ever wonder why you don't know about it? They conducted a number of other long range bomber escort sorties for Bostons and Venturas through the timeframe late 1942 to mid-1943.

First long distance "Rhubarb" into Germany by single engined fighter based in the UK. Four Mustang Mk.I aircraft of No.268 Squadron RAF (again Army Co-operation Command, not Fighter Command) operating independantly and not in conjunction, escorting or anything else. Conducted on 21 October 1942, on sortie from Snailwell via a refuelling stop at Coltishall, to a point near Texel in the Netherlands, then down through the Netherlands to a point near Heede in Germany then commenced attacking targets such as hutted camps, canal traffic on the Dortmund-Ems Canal, a gasometer and factory at Lathen, then attacking a number of small ships and tugs on the way out over the Zuider Zee and the Netherlands back to the UK. (At the same time the Squadron had a section of another four Mustang Mk.I aircraft also conducting a Rhubarb across the Netherlands, positioned where they could provide a diversion and support if required.) As to the "escorting Wellingtons" I have examined the RAF records for that date, and there were raids by RAF bombers on the Dortmund-Ems Canal, some ten to twelve hours later that night. So the Mustangs were definitely not escorting them. In seeking to identify how the two sorties became links, I looked at the official Air Ministry Communiques issued to the Press advising of RAF operational activities at the time. In the original, the sorties by the Mustangs and the later operations by the Wellingtons are two separate and quite distinct items with other operational activity between the two entries. Digging deeper, I found a copy of the Communique as edited and contracted for transmission from the UK to the USA by one of the press agencies. Here in reducing the original communique down for sending to the USA, the press agency has run the details of the Mustang operations and Wellington operations together in the narrative description, so it gives the impression the Mustangs were operating in support of the Wellingtons. That then gets picked up by the US press and presented as Mustangs escorting Wellintons - found that in period US newspapers. Those newspaper entries then get found by researchers/writers writing books about the Mustang in the 1950s and 1960s in the USA, and that's where the story gets twisted around and widely spread. Again, in part this is before most of the RAF wartime records were declassified or released to Archives, so the source documents were not available to researchers/writers of many of those early Mustang books.

The story of Mustangs getting into the pattern of a Luftwaffe training base is actually that of two pilots of the Air Fighting Development Unit (AFDU), S/L JAS MacLaclan DSO, DFC and Bars flying a modified Mustang Mk.IA aircraft and F/L AG Page (later W/C AG Page DSO, DFC and Bars) flying a modified Mustang Mk.I aircraft conducted a low level sortie on 25 June 1943 where they attacked initially Luftwaffe training aircraft at an airfield south of Paris, then Luftwaffe night fighter Ju-88s doing test flight for operations that night at an airfield in Bretigny. In a very short space of time they shot down number of Luftwaffe aircraft. This sortie had been in planning for some time and in preparation for it the two pilots had spent some time with the Mustang pilots of a number of the Army Co-operation Squadrons "picking their brains" about the tactics they were using on their low level sorties, German response times to sorties over the occupied countries and so on. This was done whilst they in return were educating the Army Cooperation Command pilots in the latest developments in Fighter tactics, German fighters, etc.

Pilots of one of the RCAF Mustang Mk.I Squadrons had been operating intruder operations earlier, but these had been mainly confined to northern France, Belgium and western Netherlands, not as far in as Germany. A couple of those intruder operations did encounter Luftwaffe aircraft operating trainer aircraft, but usually only individual aircraft, not the circuit full of trainers as encountered by MacLachlan and Page on their sortie.