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Why do you think that soviet or other tests are inreliable?Originally Posted by Soren .
Odd with the results though, considering the very poor results achieved in the Soviet tests.
Just goes to show that these tests are infact very unreliable, just like I've pointed out a multitude of times by now.
Thank you. It's time to have a look at those famous soviet tests.The tests are probaly much more reliable, if conducted over time by professional test pilots - than the aero models presented in these forums as the last word in turn modelling as I have noted multiple times also..
J'm not a Me-109 specialist.
Can you explain us why G-10 was just as heavy as the G-2 since he was carrying 70 kg (?) MW system (pump, ducts, valves), 70 (?) kg empty bottle and 70 kg (?) chemicals?
Or am-i wrong? It's just a question...
109 Weights, for clean aircraft, at full take off load (ammo, fuel, pilot etc.)
F-4: 2890 kg (probably without stuff added later, like dural armor, windscreen armor)
G-2: 3037 kg
G-6: ca. 3100 kg
G-6/trop: 3150 kg
G-10 / U4
Weight : 3343 kg
G-10
Weight : 3297 kg
G-14
Weight : 3247 kg
G-14 / U4
Weight : 3318 kg
G-14/ASM
Weight : 3272 kg
K-4
Weight: 3362 kg
Soviet G-2 used 1.3ata, not 1.42, lower or higher turn figures are for turning in left or right.
Why do you think that soviet or other tests are inreliable?
Thank you. It's time to have a look at those famous soviet tests.
1) it looks like that the Mustang was not on it's best health, and from memory it was tested at 3740kg.
2) operationnal P-40 and P-39 never exceed 3300/3500kg in units, were they were relieved from extra equippements, extra guns, extra armor plates, extra fuel. So i don't see the reason why should the fly at 3800 kg for the tests.
3) Soviets recognised the exceptionnaly small Cd of the Mustang, but also have found that it was too big and too heavy for it's engine. Just like Hurricane, P-40, and partially the P-39.
4) 90% of the airfights took place in the eastern front under 4000m. Soviets knew about the P-47 and P-51B/C, that they were altitude fighters (by eastern standards) and never provide any interest for them. 198 P-47 joined the USSR, none of them was used in operations, AFAIK.
Regards
It was. Tested in NII from april to june 1942drgondog said:VG - the Allison V-1710 references shows it was clearly a P-51A..
The P-47D-10 R-2800-63 was tested from april to june 1944. Some sources are quoting 26s ToT. Maybe at different weights. Soviet data: usual 6000kg, max 6780 kg.The curious question is why a Mustang I only while the P-47D-10 came into the 8th AF in (IIRC) in late 1943. .
Some soviet test pilots ( Gallaï, Taroshine, Stepanenko...) flew P-51D during shuttle raids, not in official trials. No report was found about that, only numerous memors...Maybe the USSR never tested the Mustang III-IV
BTW - Thanks for the turn test data - I was suprised at even 60%. What is the CLmax of that wing and are any flaps deployed, etc to maintain that CL at those bank angles
Fine! Can you show us soviet original test reports?Soviet G-2 used 1.3ata, not 1.42, lower or higher turn figures are for turning in left or right.
It seems that soviets have baught 5 Bf 109E, but recieved only 3. Do you mean all of them had kosher problems?The Soviet turn times are waaaaaay higher for the 109E, looking at the climb curves (which show an extreme fallback in rate of climb towards sea level, but pretty normal above that), I suspect something was not kosher with the 1st supercharger speed...
German specs give 18.92 sec for a sustained turn at SL for the Emil, at 5 min rating, w/o using the 1-min special low-alt augmented rating.
Now regarding the Clmax of the P-51, I would agree on ~1.5, eventhough I remember NACA saying 1.35 (Report 829). By comparison the Spitfire's was 1.36, Bf-109F/G/K was 1.7 and FW-190's was 1.61. All three a/c also have lower landing stall speeds, the Spitfire Bf-109 considerably so, and the Fw-190 being very close and pretty much the same as the P-51.
So my assessment has largely derived from the standpoint of lift generated vs the weight of the aircraft plus the amount of power available.
.
Sorry but you're the one using ridiculous Clmax figures VG-33, not me.
.
as i wroteSo on ToT(mini):
If Soviet tests were at 1.3 ata they were exceptionally fast, especially the G-2/R6, German normal speed for the version at 1,3 ata was 636km/h at 6600m, so 660km/h at 7000m for a plane not fresh from factory was rather spectacular. Even the 666km/h for clean G-2 was a bit higher than any of the 13 tested production G-2s from Erla achieved in April43, thanks for this info from your site. One at least partial explanation is of course that the German figures are compression corrected and Soviet are not.
In your site in the table of various early versions Gs with different installations G-6/R6 is 90kg heavier than G-2/R6. Can you comment that?
But the figure for G-6 is 3196kg
A couple weights for versions not in Kurfürst list, I'd appreciate, if Kurfüst would comment these.
109G-6/U3 3320kg(R2), I know this wasn't an official designation but it gives info on what was installed in the a/c.
Hello VG-33
Thanks for the engine power info in your message #73.
Juha