Other countries' Dauntless?

Alan Stevens said:

Nobody really knew just how devastating the SBD would be until they destroyed 4 IJN fleet aircraft carriers at Midway in June 1942.

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They knew the SBD's worth before the Battle of Midway Atoll.

10 December 1941, SBDs sank IJN's I-70 submarine, for two months in early 1942, SBDs hammered Japanese installations on quite a few islands and then during the Battle of Coral Sea, they assisted in the sinking of the Shoho and mauled the Shokaku.

Alan Stevens said:

Nobody really knew just how devastating the SBD would be until they destroyed 4 IJN fleet aircraft carriers at Midway in June 1942.

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GrauGeist said:

They knew the SBD's worth before the Battle of Midway Atoll.

10 December 1941, SBDs sank IJN's I-70 submarine, for two months in early 1942, SBDs hammered Japanese installations on quite a few islands and then during the Battle of Coral Sea, they assisted in the sinking of the Shoho and mauled the Shokaku.

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The Pacific War was indeed where the dive bombers shined. American team play and C&C also played the part, as well as the deficiencies of the Japanese defensive doctrine and abilities.
Vals were also racking up the scores; granted, they rarely if ever bagged a carrier just on themselves (payload was much lighter than what SBDs were capable carrying - not sure what was the reason for such a light payload?), but their tally included a lot of hard-to-hit targets, like the small and nimble cruisers.

tomo pauk said:

The Pacific War was indeed where the dive bombers shined. American team play and C&C also played the part, as well as the deficiencies of the Japanese defensive doctrine and abilities.
Vals were also racking up the scores; granted, they rarely if ever bagged a carrier just on themselves (payload was much lighter than what SBDs were capable carrying - not sure what was the reason for such a light payload?), but their tally included a lot of hard-to-hit targets, like the small and nimble cruisers.

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HMS Hermes 9 April 1942

The SBD seemed to be pretty effective at the Battle of the Coral Sea as well. Don't short change on of my favorite planes.

I didn't realize the Fairey Battle was stressed for dive bombing. So why not the Battle?
-Eliminate the third crew member, no need for a bomb aimer in a dive bomber.
-Add in an era appropriate Merlin XX

Clayton Magnet said:

I didn't realize the Fairey Battle was stressed for dive bombing. So why not the Battle?
-Eliminate the third crew member, no need for a bomb aimer in a dive bomber.
-Add in an era appropriate Merlin XX

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Too big, too draggy.
The Henley with it's smaller wing was faster by some 40 mph, on same engine, and despite not being miracle of aerodynamics.
Similar for the Fairey P.4/34 - smaller and less draggy, faster by some 30 mph than the battle.

GrauGeist said:

They knew the SBD's worth before the Battle of Midway Atoll.

10 December 1941, SBDs sank IJN's I-70 submarine, for two months in early 1942, SBDs hammered Japanese installations on quite a few islands and then during the Battle of Coral Sea, they assisted in the sinking of the Shoho and mauled the Shokaku.

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The destruction of all four IJN fleet aircraft carriers at Midway was a far greater feat.

Alan Stevens said:

The destruction of all four IJN fleet aircraft carriers at Midway was a far greater feat.

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Of course it was, no one is implying differently.

The point being made, was that the USN knew of the SBD's value, and benefited greatly by it, months before Midway.

And I should add that because of the SBD's mauling of Shokaku at Coral Sea, she was not able to participate in the Midway battle as the IJN planners had hoped.

So only four IJN fleet carriers were present instead of the six intended - that is a direct consequence of the Dauntless.

But let's not forget that it was USN doctrine pre-war (from the late 1920s) that the role of their carriers was to remove the enemy's carriers from the battle, at the very least by ripping up their flight decks so rendering them unusable. And the principal USN weapon to do that was intended to be the dive bomber. So in that respect the SBD was simply the latest in a line if aircraft designed specifically for that task, and a task it performed superbly well at Coral Sea and Midway. If anything the surpise at Midway was the extent of the damage to the Japanese carriers resulting from their strikes, which forced the IJN to scuttle their carriers before withdrawing.

The only difference pre-war to wartime was that the expectation pre-war was that carrier actions would most probably be 1v1 and not 2v 3 as at Coral Sea or 3v4 as at Midway.

The USN move to the use of bigger HE (not AP) bombs (1,000lb as opposed to 500lb) was to increase the effectiveness of near misses. That only occurred with the introduction of the SB2U Vindicator (service entry Dec 1937. 170 built for USN), Northrop BT-1 (1938. Only 55 built) and the SBC-4 (March 1939. 124 built). The first and last of those types were still on the USN carriers into 1942.

The SBD itself only entered service in late 1940 with the USMC. Things like self sealing fuel tanks and increased armour didn't arrive until the SBD-3 version, production of which only began about March 1941.

GrauGeist said:

Of course it was, no one is implying differently.

The point being made, was that the USN knew of the SBD's value, and benefited greatly by it, months before Midway.

And I should add that because of the SBD's mauling of Shokaku at Coral Sea, she was not able to participate in the Midway battle as the IJN planners had hoped.

So only four IJN fleet carriers were present instead of the six intended - that is a direct consequence of the Dauntless.

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Shokaku was hit by three bombs from SBDs.

Zuikaku was undamaged but its air squadrons were heavily depleted, and that credit goes to F4F Wildcat fighters and USN AA fire. Zuikaku didn't make Midway because the IJN didn't have a plan in place to quickly replenish aircraft losses.

The SBD did have some fighter capability. Flying without bombs or after the bombs were released, the plane could do a reasonable job of attacking IJN bombers. Two 0.50 in (12.7 mm) forward-firing synchronized Browning M2 machine guns in engine cowling.

I'm not sure how much of that occurred at Coral Sea and Midway.