P-38 or P-47 for Strafing (3 Viewers)

[MIflyer]

When Gen Quesda planned his mission to kill Rommel he chose a P-38, since the concentration of firepower in the nose was best, with his top wing commanders flying P-47's as escorts.

But the P-47 gave the pilot a much better view of the ground, since those two big engines out to either side were not in the way.

A-26 looked to be a better ground attack aircraft than the P-47 but they found it was so much larger that it was an easier target. So in the ETO it seems that neither A-26's nor B-26's nor B-25's did much ground strafing.

 

[Dimensional_Drift]

I see, thank you all for your inputs!

 

[Frog]

The P-38's second engine was fine to return home if the first engine was damaged and you could extinguish the fire...

 

[Shortround6]

The P-38's second engine was fine to return home if the first engine was damaged and you could extinguish the fire...

That assumes you had a late model P-38 with a generator on each engine or that you were lucky and and the dead engine was the one that didn't have the generator to begin with.
Flying with no generator called for very careful management of the electrical load. P-38s used electric props, if the pilot didn't adjust the prop pitch (or change throttle/governor settings) they didn't use power. For long flights judicious use of the radio was advised (turn it off unless really needed).

 

[drgondog]

Very likely there would not be room.
One of the .60 cal cartridges.
View attachment 808006
It makes the .50 cal look like toy. It was later necked down to make the 20mm round used in the 20mm Vulcan gun.
Each .60 cal machine gun was as big (or bigger) than a 20mm Hispano.

That looks very much like a .50 cal case rather than the fat .60 cal being tested in 1944/45?

 

[Reluctant Poster]

The P-38's second engine was fine to return home if the first engine was damaged and you could extinguish the fire...

And it was the engine that had the generator. Having a generator on each engine didn't occur to Lockheed until late in the war.

 

[GrauGeist]

When Gen Quesda planned his mission to kill Rommel he chose a P-38, since the concentration of firepower in the nose was best, with his top wing commanders flying P-47's as escorts.

But the P-47 gave the pilot a much better view of the ground, since those two big engines out to either side were not in the way.

A-26 looked to be a better ground attack aircraft than the P-47 but they found it was so much larger that it was an easier target. So in the ETO it seems that neither A-26's nor B-26's nor B-25's did much ground strafing.

They did use the P-61 as a ground attack/strafer in the ETO later on, though.

 

[Shortround6]

That looks very much like a .50 cal case rather than the fat .60 cal being tested in 1944/45?

Could be, it is from a cartridge collector site trying to identify what he had. There were several .60s and the more than one high velocity .50 but the guns were all much bigger than than the standard .50 and one of the guns was a Hispano gun fitted with a barrel that used a 20mm Hispano case necked to the smaller projectile. The US .60 from the prewar Anti tank rifle/machine gun used a bigger case than the Hispano. Needs a bigger gun.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

When Gen Quesda planned his mission to kill Rommel he chose a P-38, since the concentration of firepower in the nose was best, with his top wing commanders flying P-47's as escorts.

But the P-47 gave the pilot a much better view of the ground, since those two big engines out to either side were not in the way.

A-26 looked to be a better ground attack aircraft than the P-47 but they found it was so much larger that it was an easier target. So in the ETO it seems that neither A-26's nor B-26's nor B-25's did much ground strafing.

Rommel's car was shot up by 2TAF Typhoons, and I'm pretty sure that mission wasn't planned specifically to kill Rommel, but rather a generic search-and-destroy. Quesada had nothing to do with that flight.

Perhaps you're confusing it with Adm Yamamoto's shoot-down, which was specifically planned, and was flown by P-38s (albeit for range rather than firepower).

 

[Reluctant Poster]

Rommel's car was shot up by 2TAF Typhoons

Maybe maybe not. More likely Spitfires. The strongest case seems to be Charles Fox of 412.

 

[drgondog]

Could be, it is from a cartridge collector site trying to identify what he had. There were several .60s and the more than one high velocity .50 but the guns were all much bigger than than the standard .50 and one of the guns was a Hispano gun fitted with a barrel that used a 20mm Hispano case necked to the smaller projectile. The US .60 from the prewar Anti tank rifle/machine gun used a bigger case than the Hispano. Needs a bigger gun.

That very much looks like a round from the 60cal tested at Eglin in 1952. I once had a 250 round box of inert 60 cal and all had the '30-06' case design like the Browning 50 - just necked up and probably the same headspace. With a different recoil buffer and barrel, it should worked on the M2 frame.

I know you are correct about the 60cal experiments with much higher MV. To me they looked kinda like a scaled up Weatherby 257 with fat case and small neck.

 

[Frog]

Maybe maybe not. More likely Spitfires. The strongest case seems to be Charles Fox of 412.

Near a place named Sainte-Foy de Montgommery...

 

[MIflyer]

They did use the P-61 as a ground attack/strafer in the ETO later on, though.

A much better view out the front than a P-38!

Rommel's car was shot up by 2TAF Typhoons, and I'm pretty sure that mission wasn't planned specifically to kill Rommel, but rather a generic search-and-destroy. Quesada had nothing to do with that flight.

Pete Quesada told a friend of mine that it was him flying a P-38 with his 4 top fighter commanders as escorts that strafed him and it was planned operation, just like the Yamamoto execution.

The US Army officer who was part of the occupation force in the area of Rommel's home said that Erin Rommel's family was told by the General that it was USAAF airplanes, not the RAF.

 

[Howard Gibson]

Perhaps you're confusing it with Adm Yamamoto's shoot-down, which was specifically planned, and was flown by P-38s (albeit for range rather than firepower).

Were P-47s available in the Pacific then?

In his book Freedom's Forge, author Arthur Herman records a conversation between Pacific army air force commander George Kenney, and auto mogul/army general George Knudsen. Knudsen was advocating Mustangs, and Kenney was replying that two engines are good, and that parachuting onto Japanese held islands is bad.

I have literature here somewhere that states that Thunderbolt pilots switched some of their guns off for strafing, to save ammo. The full eight gun complement was to make sure you hit enemy aircraft.

 

[MikeMeech]

A much better view out the front than a P-38!


Pete Quesada told a friend of mine that it was him flying a P-38 with his 4 top fighter commanders as escorts that strafed him and it was planned operation, just like the Yamamoto execution.

The US Army officer who was part of the occupation force in the area of Rommel's home said that Erin Rommel's family was told by the General that it was USAAF airplanes, not the RAF.

Hi
In the Christopher Shores & Chris Thomas book '2nd Tactical Air Force, Volume 2' page 222 this attack on Rommel is discussed fully:

Rommel was no stranger to having to dive for cover due to air attack, this from 'Air Power at the Battlefield, Allied Close Air Support in Europe 1943-45', page 212, by Ian Gooderson:

No 'special' mission was necessary the Allied air forces were attacking all German movements that they saw constantly (except, of course, when the weather was too poor to operate).

Mike

 

[MIflyer]

No 'special' mission was necessary the Allied air forces were attacking all German movements that they saw constantly

In his book "Patton's Gap" MGen Richard Rohmer, RCAF, flying a Mustang MkI, described his spotting a possible command car and relaying the information. He thought he was the one who called the fighters down on Rommel. And Rommel's family said he had thought the attackers were USAAF, as related in the book "The Murder Of Rommel.".

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

A much better view out the front than a P-38!


Pete Quesada told a friend of mine that it was him flying a P-38 with his 4 top fighter commanders as escorts that strafed him and it was planned operation, just like the Yamamoto execution.

The US Army officer who was part of the occupation force in the area of Rommel's home said that Erin Rommel's family was told by the General that it was USAAF airplanes, not the RAF.

Well, the story definitely got garbled in the telling.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Were P-47s available in the Pacific then?

In his book Freedom's Forge, author Arthur Herman records a conversation between Pacific army air force commander George Kenney, and auto mogul/army general George Knudsen. Knudsen was advocating Mustangs, and Kenney was replying that two engines are good, and that parachuting onto Japanese held islands is bad.

I have literature here somewhere that states that Thunderbolt pilots switched some of their guns off for strafing, to save ammo. The full eight gun complement was to make sure you hit enemy aircraft.

I don't believe -47s were available in SoWesPac until later in 1943.

 

[GrauGeist]

The P-47 entered service in the PTO mid-summer 1943, operating out of New Guinea.

 

[MIflyer]

No 'special' mission was necessary

And you think that Gen Quesda would decide that they'd get Rommel sooner or later anyway? Really? I was only in the USAF on active duty for 25 years, but that experience tells me that military officers in a war don't think that way.