P-40 vs. Hurricane

[Old Wizard]

 

[muskeg13]

Glad you mentioned Pappy's name Drgon, I was just reading that his biography was written by no less an authority than General George Kenney. That alone tells you something about the importance of his contributions to the Pacific Theater air war. It's a miracle Gunn survived the first three months of the war! He was a legend in his own time.

I just finished reading Gen. Kenney's biography of Pappy Gunn. Easy read and very interesting. Gunn was quite a "character!" This was only a 0.99 cent download from the Amazon Kindle Store, and is well worth it. FYI: You don't have to read this on a Kindle. Amazon has a free Kindle-PC interface application that works great. There are lots of very interesting free or very cheap books that can be downloaded from Amazon Kindle.

 

[swampyankee]

An article at U.S. Army Air Force Resource Center - A Warbirds Resource Group Site, the Soviet pilots felt the "Soviet commanders considered the Kittyhawk to significantly outclass the Hurricane" and Commonwealth air forces reported "[t]he P-40s were considered superior to the Hurricane."

I really don't have a side here, except that I feel that the P-40, F4F, and P-39 are frequently given short shrift because they weren't a) German and b) operating with the Eighth Air Force over Germany.

 

[Shortround6]

Well everybody knows that just painting black crosses and swastikas on an aircraft adds 20-30mph in speed and hundreds of feet per minute in climb
Not mention the guns shoot further and more accurately

However the US always planned to replace the P-39 and P-40 with P-38s and P-47s as soon as increased production of the P-38 and P-47 allowed. The P-51 had no bearing on production/deployment plans made in 1941 and early 1942 and please remember that these plans were often being made a year or more in advance. Sometimes two years and sometimes plans crashed and burned, like Curtiss production of P-47s.
US ordering of Allison P-51s was by the hundreds while orders for the P-39, P-40, P-38 and P-47 were by the thousands. It is not until the summer of 1942 that investigations start on using the Merlin in the P-51 and orders for the P-51 go to thousands per order in the fall of 1942 and spring of 1943.
I would not put a lot of stock into some the Russian stories either. In some cases there are just too few reported incidents to make a valid judgment. Much like the Buffaloes lousy reputation being based on about a dozen planes at Midway on one mission with green pilots.
I would note that some of the combats reported using Tomahawks in Russia are from Jan/Feb of 1942 or the Germans first winter in Russia and one might wonder just how well the German planes were maintained of the condition of the German pilots.

 

[stona]

Not mention the guns shoot further and more accurately

Specially when mounted on the fuselage close to the centre line, or firing through the spinner. They were at least 15 times more effective, but only in combination with black crosses on the wings

 

[swampyankee]

Well everybody knows that just painting black crosses and swastikas on an aircraft adds 20-30mph in speed and hundreds of feet per minute in climb
Not mention the guns shoot further and more accurately

However the US always planned to replace the P-39 and P-40 with P-38s and P-47s as soon as increased production of the P-38 and P-47 allowed. The P-51 had no bearing on production/deployment plans made in 1941 and early 1942 and please remember that these plans were often being made a year or more in advance. Sometimes two years and sometimes plans crashed and burned, like Curtiss production of P-47s.
US ordering of Allison P-51s was by the hundreds while orders for the P-39, P-40, P-38 and P-47 were by the thousands. It is not until the summer of 1942 that investigations start on using the Merlin in the P-51 and orders for the P-51 go to thousands per order in the fall of 1942 and spring of 1943.
I would not put a lot of stock into some the Russian stories either. In some cases there are just too few reported incidents to make a valid judgment. Much like the Buffaloes lousy reputation being based on about a dozen planes at Midway on one mission with green pilots.
I would note that some of the combats reported using Tomahawks in Russia are from Jan/Feb of 1942 or the Germans first winter in Russia and one might wonder just how well the German planes were maintained of the condition of the German pilots.

On the other hand, this may also be when the Soviet Air Forces were still trying to achieve sufficient competence. Starting with an inferior manufacturing base and shooting people who looked the wrong way ("hmmm....I wanted that girl...I'll just report him for subversion...") couldn't have done much for readiness.

 

[Shortround6]

On the other hand, this may also be when the Soviet Air Forces were still trying to achieve sufficient competence. Starting with an inferior manufacturing base and shooting people who looked the wrong way ("hmmm....I wanted that girl...I'll just report him for subversion...") couldn't have done much for readiness.

True but frozen guns and building wood fires under the engines of aircraft to warm them up enough to start not to mention what the pilots had for winter flying gear or cockpit heat ?

An Italian squadron operating in Russia lost several aircraft in one day when landing due to the landing gear oleos haven frozen/solidified in flight. Brought new meaning to "fixed" landing gear when trying to land.