P-47D-22-RE with Hamilton Standard props

[Wirbelwind]

Can anyone share wartime photos of P-47D-22-RE aircraft with the Hamilton Standard props where the aircraft s/n is clearly visible?

This one looks very good, but I believe the aircraft in the picture has a CE prop judging by the bullet shaped hub.

Thank you!

 

[mjfur]

https://live.staticflickr.com/2056/4513098206_866ae7c38a_b.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gqdJdi-PkQU/UwchSLRCjPI/AAAAAAAAAKg/Lrpz9utSRLY/s1600/P-47D+42-26088.jpg
42-26357 | American Air Museum in Britain
Roger Freeman Collection FRE 2845 | American Air Museum in Britain
Roger Freeman Collection FRE 9512 | American Air Museum in Britain
UPL 46370 | American Air Museum in Britain
42-26258 | American Air Museum in Britain
42-25721 | American Air Museum in Britain
42-26057 | American Air Museum in Britain

 

[Wirbelwind]

https://live.staticflickr.com/2056/4513098206_866ae7c38a_b.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gqdJdi-PkQU/UwchSLRCjPI/AAAAAAAAAKg/Lrpz9utSRLY/s1600/P-47D+42-26088.jpg
42-26357 | American Air Museum in Britain
Roger Freeman Collection FRE 2845 | American Air Museum in Britain
Roger Freeman Collection FRE 9512 | American Air Museum in Britain
UPL 46370 | American Air Museum in Britain
42-26258 | American Air Museum in Britain
42-25721 | American Air Museum in Britain
42-26057 | American Air Museum in Britain

Amazing. Thank you so much!

I spent quite a while searching for suitable photos but only found two of the ones in your list. These photos are perfect.

 

[greatgonzo]

You may also add a bunch of 56th FG quite famous frames. The S/N not necessarily always visible on pics, yet known. These would be 'Stalag Luft III...', 'Silver Lady' and Mike Gładych's 'Pengie III'. Pictures are rather easy to find, I believe.

 

[mad_max]

Just make sure they're really D-22's as if you don't already know they replaced "needle" props from earlier airframes with the high activity props in the field. I suppose the S/N would tell you that though.

 

[oldcolt357]

You may also add a bunch of 56th FG quite famous frames. The S/N not necessarily always visible on pics, yet known. These would be 'Stalag Luft III...', 'Silver Lady' and Mike Gładych's 'Pengie III'. Pictures are rather easy to find, I believe.

I don't mean to hijack this conversation, I appreciate all the knowledge this website contains but I have a question. Originally only the Farmingdale produced P47-22, -25 and -27s came from the factory with the HS hydraulic prop. Maybe 10% of the total P47 production. Today on the dozen or so flight capable P47s just about all of them have the hydraulic propeller and not the Curtis electrical one. In particular "SNAFU" is a P47G built by Curtis that originally had the small "toothpick" Curtis electric prop but now has the Hydraulic HS prop. What would be involved in changing a P47 over from an electric prop to hydraulic?

 

[Tom Fey]

I would guess you would unplug the oil ports on the nose case, replace the CE electric prop governor with the appropriate hydraulic governor, retrofit the proper oil porting device in the bore of the prop shaft, switch out the propellers, replace/dial in the prop control linkages, and set the governor speeder spring.

 

[Wirbelwind]

So for aircraft like P-47D-22-RE 42-25969, which in the attached photo appears to have a CE prop, would these props have been changed after manufacture/delivery as a field mod?

Were there any -22-RE aircraft that came from the factory with CE props?

 

[oldcolt357]

So for aircraft like P-47D-22-RE 42-25969, which in the attached photo appears to have a CE prop, would these props have been changed after manufacture/delivery as a field mod?

Were there any -22-RE aircraft that came from the factory with CE props?

My understanding is that all P47B, P47C and P47D up through the P47D-21 manufactured either in Farmingdale NY (RE suffix) or Evansville In. (RA suffix) came from the factory with the small Curtis electric "toothpick" props. Then the P47D-22 RE Farmingdale had the Hamilton Standard hydraulic prop while at the same time the P47D-23 RA Evansville had the Curtis electric paddle bladed prop from the factory. From this point on all Thunderbolts left the factory with Paddle bladed props either Hamilton Standards from Farmingdale NY or Curtis Electric from Evansville IN. The Hydraulic props only came on Farmingdale produced P47D-22 RE razer back and the P47D-25RE & P47D-27RE bubble tops. After that, from the P47D-28 through the P47M and P47N they all had Curtis electric paddle bladed props. Also, there were two versions of the Curtis electric paddle bladed prop as with the toothpick prop both had the cuff near the hub but one had a symmetrical blade and the other asymmetrical. You can see the difference in blade shape if you look at various pictures of bubble top Jugs. The P47M and P47Ns all came from the factory with the symmetrical blades. As an aside, when Robert Johnson had his P47D 21 small Curtis Electric prop changed to a paddle blade prop in the field New Years day 1944 he received the symmetrical blade prop like the ones that would later come on P47Ms and P47Ns from the factory.

 

[Wirbelwind]

My understanding is that all P47B, P47C and P47D up through the P47D-21 manufactured either in Farmingdale NY (RE suffix) or Evansville In. (RA suffix) came from the factory with the small Curtis electric "toothpick" props. Then the P47D-22 RE Farmingdale had the Hamilton Standard hydraulic prop while at the same time the P47D-23 RA Evansville had the Curtis electric paddle bladed prop from the factory. From this point on all Thunderbolts left the factory with Paddle bladed props either Hamilton Standards from Farmingdale NY or Curtis Electric from Evansville IN. The Hydraulic props only came on Farmingdale produced P47D-22 RE razer back and the P47D-25RE & P47D-27RE bubble tops. After that, from the P47D-28 through the P47M and P47N they all had Curtis electric paddle bladed props. Also, there were two versions of the Curtis electric paddle bladed prop as with the toothpick prop both had the cuff near the hub but one had a symmetrical blade and the other asymmetrical. You can see the difference in blade shape if you look at various pictures of bubble top Jugs. The P47M and P47Ns all came from the factory with the symmetrical blades. As an aside, when Robert Johnson had his P47D 21 small Curtis Electric prop changed to a paddle blade prop in the field New Years day 1944 he received the symmetrical blade prop like the ones that would later come on P47Ms and P47Ns from the factory.

Interesting. Thanks for clarifying.

So Just to make sure I understood that correctly, all -22-RE came with the Hamilton Standard props from the factory. That can only mean that any -22-RE aircraft I see with the Curtiss Electric props must have received the prop as a modification after delivery.

 

[greatgonzo]

It would have rather been replacement, then modification. But yes field mounted prop. Possibly with whole QEC. Possibly not.
It is more complicated with the props though. The propellers for C-series R-2800 differed from those for B-series. Different shafts, different cuffs. You can easily distinguish one from another with a single glare. There were but seven props mounted on Thunderbolts, not counting those going through different tests. Blades where produced by HS, CE and A.O. Smith. The latter ones being asymmetrical blade for CE hubs.
The N-5s left the factory with asymmetrical blades.

 

[oldcolt357]

Thanks for the clarification regarding N-5's having the asymmetrical props. My limited knowledge of this propeller differences comes from decades of looking at different pictures in various books. If anyone has actual documentation from Republic I would appreciate being able to study it.
Again, this website if full of people with various bits of great information, so I have two questions.
1) Is the Hamilton Standard hydraulic prop used on the P47 the same as the one on the F4u-4 Corsair?
2) In general, razor back P47's had 305 gallons of internal fuel and bubbletops had 370 gallons. I have read that the last two razor back versions the P47-22 and P47-23 had the larger tankage installed. Can anyone confirm this?
Thanks.

 

[mjfur]

If you haven't seen it, here's a chart with more Prop/Engine information. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47-tactical-chart.jpg

 

[oldcolt357]

Thanks for the clarification regarding N-5's having the asymmetrical props. My limited knowledge of this propeller differences comes from decades of looking at different pictures in various books. If anyone has actual documentation from Republic I would appreciate being able to study it.
Again, this website if full of people with various bits of great information, so I have two questions.
1) Is the Hamilton Standard hydraulic prop used on the P47 the same as the one on the F4u-4 Corsair?
2) In general, razor back P47's had 305 gallons of internal fuel and bubbletops had 370 gallons. I have read that the last two razor back versions the P47-22 and P47-23 had the larger tankage installed. Can anyone confirm this?
Thanks.

If you haven't seen it, here's a chart with more Prop/Engine information. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47-tactical-chart.jpg

Thanks for the chart, I haven't seen this one before.

 

[greatgonzo]

Thanks for the clarification regarding N-5's having the asymmetrical props.

Bad Gonzo! N-25 I have meant. My mistake, sorry.

 

[Wirbelwind]

It would have rather been replacement, then modification. But yes field mounted prop. Possibly with whole QEC. Possibly not.

I didn't get that.

When you say "replacement, then modification", do you mean that the props on -22-RE aircraft would only have been switched from Hamilton Standards to Curtiss Electric when it was necessary to replace the prop?

 

[greatgonzo]

Yes. And there were shortages of HS props, so often there was no choice really.

 

[oldcolt357]

I believe you are correct about the shortage of Hamilton Standard props. When looking at climb and speed performance of p47s at the same power settings (boost and RPM) the HS hydraulic propeller seems to slightly out perform the C electric props.
As I mentioned above was Hamilton Standard too busy making propellers for other types of aircraft such as the Corsair?

 

[Wirbelwind]

Yes. And there were shortages of HS props, so often there was no choice really.

And are we certain that all -22-RE aircraft came from the factory only with the Hamilton Standard prop?

 

[greatgonzo]

There is almost nothing a man can be certain of with these subjects. Yet, there is no information saying else. I mean, I never met it. And that is as far as I would dare to go. HS prop for Corsair U-4 was different. The hub had to fit to '60' spline, as C-series engine was used there. I have never compared the blades in these types of propellers, so I don't know, maybe they were the same or interchangeable. Obviously HS had their hands full of work anyway building large amount of screws for multiple types of aircraft.