P-509

[SaparotRob]

I'm following the thread asking if the P-51was the best WW2 escort. There's a few mentions of the P-509. I'm not familiar with it and I can't find it online. Could someone kindly post some information about it?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I'm following the thread asking if the P-51was the best WW2 escort. There's a few mentions of the P-509. I'm not familiar with it and I can't find it online. Could someone kindly post some information about it?

I don't think it was an actually aircraft, it was a North American proposal

 

[GrauGeist]

From drgondog himself:

The P-509 was the Allison Powered High Speed Pursuit preliminary design that went to AFPC in mid march 1940 along with the specifications that became the NA-73 after a month of idea exchange between RAF/BAM and NAA. In other words the 'baby Mustang'

 

[SaparotRob]

I appreciate it guys. Thanks.

 

[GrauGeist]

You're welcome.

 

[Capt. Vick]

Ha, and here I thought it was a typo

 

[Snautzer01]

I do remember posting a pic of what looked like a small p-51. Not sure if it is one.

 

[SaparotRob]

I'm probably not the only one who'd like to see that.

 

[Snautzer01]

XP-51F was what i remembered, " lightweight P-51D with a 3-bladed propeller and really good speed at high altitudes, but an armament of 4 .50 Brownings. Only 3 prototypes were built,one was sent to the UK (named Mustang V).

Lets call this one the P-51 Toddler

 

[SaparotRob]

First (non NA 73X) Mustang picture I've seen with a 3 bladed prop. If the early RAF Mustangs had 3 bladed props, the pictures showed a whirling propeller.
I started looking up Mustang variants just to see if there's a P-51G. The D, the H, and K models have been discussed here. This is the first website I've been to that I have to do homework for.
Thank you for that picture. No matter the variant the Mustang is always a beautiful airplane.
Couldn't find a P-51 I.

 

[GrauGeist]

First (non NA 73X) Mustang picture I've seen with a 3 bladed prop. If the early RAF Mustangs had 3 bladed props, the pictures showed a whirling propeller.

The first production Mustang I, SerNo. AG345 - there's a three-bladed prop for ya'

 

[SaparotRob]

Beautiful airplane. Would the aircraft pictured be the same as an A-36?

 

[SaparotRob]

Just noticed the national insignia on the bottom of the wing. Would that be correctly called a "neutrality star"? I think it was called by that in an issue of Air Classics years ago.

 

[GrauGeist]

This photo was taken around Spring 1941, so the markings are US National (even though this is an RAF bird).
The USAAC insignia was a white star in a blue field with a red "dot" centered in the star along with the red and white "fin flash" on the rudder.
After the US entered the war, the USAAF in May of 1942 ordered the "meatball" to be deleted from the star to avoid confusion with the Imperial Japanese "Hinomaru" (red circle insignia on their aircraft).

 

[SaparotRob]

I read (somewhere) that removing the red dot was done because the Doolittle Raiders WEREN'T fired upon by Japanese forces. The B-25's were thought to have been mistaken for the G3M "Nell". The red dot inside the star being identified as the Hinomaru. The twin rudders just added to the Raiders mis-identification. I had kinda doubted that.
Was that national insignia (red dot) ever referred to as a "neutrality star"?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Beautiful airplane. Would the aircraft pictured be the same as an A-36?

No. Although similar the A-36 had dive brakes.

"The A-36A differed from previous Mustang versions in having a set of hydraulically-operated perforated door-type dive brakes mounted at approximately mid-chord on both the upper and lower wing surfaces outboard of the wing guns. The brakes were normally recessed into the wings, but were opened to 90 degrees by a hydraulic jack to hold diving speeds down to 250 mph. A rack was fitted under each wing for a 500-pound bombs, a 75 US gallon drop tank, or smoke-curtain equipment. A built-in armament of six 0.50-inch machine guns (two in lower fuselage nose, four in the wings) was fitted, however the two nose guns were often omitted in service. The wing guns were moved closer to the main landing gear strut in order to minimize stress under taxi and takeoff conditions. The engine was the Allison V-1710-87 (F21R), rated at 1325 hp at 3000 feet. Normal and maximum loaded weights rose to 8370 pounds and 10,700 pounds, and the maximum speed in clean condition fell to 356 mph at 5000 feet and 310 mph with the two 500-lb bombs fitted. With the bombs, range and service ceiling were 550 miles and 25,100 feet respectively."

North American A-36 Mustang

 

[SaparotRob]

Well that's 3 more wrong things I took for fact.

 

[newst]

Just noticed the national insignia on the bottom of the wing. Would that be correctly called a "neutrality star"? I think it was called by that in an issue of Air Classics years ago.

The "Neutrality Star" was the same as the general U.S. National insignia, A white star in a blue circle with a red dot in the center. It is so named because of how it was used.

In the months before the Pearl Harbor attack, the Navy painted the large national insignia on the nose of aircraft that were liable to encounter 'hostile' aircraft at sea. It was intended to clearly demonstrate that the aircraft was a non-combatant, like the Dutch painting their civilian aircraft orange or the big red and white stripes on Swiss aircraft. It was likely intended more for Atlantic use, to keep American aircraft out from between British/German conflicts, but was used in the Pacific also.

 

[newst]

First (non NA 73X) Mustang picture I've seen with a 3 bladed prop. If the early RAF Mustangs had 3 bladed props, the pictures showed a whirling propeller.
I started looking up Mustang variants just to see if there's a P-51G. The D, the H, and K models have been discussed here. This is the first website I've been to that I have to do homework for.
Thank you for that picture. No matter the variant the Mustang is always a beautiful airplane.
Couldn't find a P-51 I.

The Army did not use the letters I or O in equipment designators to avoid confusion with 0 and 1.

 

[SaparotRob]

I never knew that. Thanks newst.