P-509

[drgondog]

The P-509 per Specification 1592, circa March 1940 - Algier art for NAA Marketing. Note the ventral aft positioned glycol radiator and oil cooler. Note the six gun wing, 2 gun cowl armament. This is the version that morphed into NA-73 Specification 1620. One of the two armament proposals installed 2x20mm Hispano II in each wing but AAF would not permit allocating the very small supply. Between this rendition of the preliminary design for the Allison High Speed Pursuit in March to the NA-73 the Mustang grew about five feet in length and 3 feet in total span. The wing area grew from 180sf to 235sf

You can see why the Mustang never had fuselage fuel until the P-51B three years later. The airfoil on the P-509 was the NACA 2516-34 High Speed but by the time the contract had been signed Horkey and his team were sure they could derive what came to be the NAA.NACA 45-100 High Speed/Low Drag but the NACA 23016 as the fall back

 

[SaparotRob]

Great stuff, drgondog! It's fascinating to see a proposed aircraft go from sketches to prototype then to production and all the changes down the line. Great looking airplane from the start.

 

[Big Jake]

I believe the first time an "I" was used in a US military aircraft designation was with the F-16I sold to Israel.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The P-509 per Specification 1592, circa March 1940 - Algier art for NAA Marketing. Note the ventral aft positioned glycol radiator and oil cooler. Note the six gun wing, 2 gun cowl armament. This is the version that morphed into NA-73 Specification 1620. One of the two armament proposals installed 2x20mm Hispano II in each wing but AAF would not permit allocating the very small supply. Between this rendition of the preliminary design for the Allison High Speed Pursuit in March to the NA-73 the Mustang grew about five feet in length and 3 feet in total span. The wing area grew from 180sf to 235sf
View attachment 581368

You can see why the Mustang never had fuselage fuel until the P-51B three years later. The airfoil on the P-509 was the NACA 2516-34 High Speed but by the time the contract had been signed Horkey and his team were sure they could derive what came to be the NAA.NACA 45-100 High Speed/Low Drag but the NACA 23016 as the fall back

Why does this remind me of this...

 

[SaparotRob]

That's a familiar face. I saw that labeled as the "American Zero" in some article. A cheap, easily mass produced dog fighter. XP-77?

 

[newst]

I believe the first time an "I" was used in a US military aircraft designation was with the F-16I sold to Israel.

You may be correct. However, this is an Air Force designation. My comment was specific to the Army process. I spent 35 years working in logistics positions (civilian) fo the U.S. Army and have no background in the rules followed in the other services.

 

[newst]

I never knew that. Thanks newst.

It was still true when I retired from the Army (as a civilian employee, not in service) in 2010. That may have changed since, but I don't see any reason that the military would change a decades-old policy just to make it easier to get things confused. Oh, wait. In today's DoD maybe they would.

 

[newst]

The 'Neutrality Star' Was a 1941 pre-war U.S. Navy adaptation to their national markings. It was the same five-pointed white star in a blue circle with the red center that was used on the aircraft wings. The difference that made it a 'Neutrality Star' was that it was applied to the cowling of the aircraft. As it was intended to prevent U.S. and Japanese aircraft that might run into each other from accidentally fighting in the Pacific, it was only applied to single-engined aircraft.

Funny thing. I just tried searching Google Images for Neutrality Star, and nothing came up. I had to specifically search F4F-3 Neutrality Star, and while most of the images were not Neutrality Star aircraft, this photo was. It is a very early, yellow-wing, F4F-3 with telescope sight.

 

[SaparotRob]

I first read the term "neutrality star" in an old Air Classics magazine and haven't read that since the one time.

 

[GrauGeist]

The term "Neutrality Star" may confuse the search engine.

The National insignia was added to US Navy fuselages due to the "Neutrality Act" of March 1940 and was applied to active neutrality patrol aircraft in the Atlantic as well as the Pacific.

About the same time, USAAC aircraft engaged in coastal patrols or flights in areas in or near war zones (Europe, for example) had an American flag painted on the fuselage (as large as practical).

And a note about the Wildcat pictured:
It was an F4F-3, plane 12 of VF-72, assigned to the USS Wasp (CV-7), which was conducting neutrality operations in the Atlantic.

 

[SaparotRob]

So the "neutrality star" is really the National Insignia. Just gotta get the dates right.

 

[SaparotRob]

Maybe I'll call them "dot stars". I can make stuff up too.

 

[GrauGeist]

So the "neutrality star" is really the National Insignia. Just gotta get the dates right.

Pretty much.

The National insignia had remained unchanged between 1919 and 1942, when the "meatball" was removed from the star due to possible confusion with the Japanese Hinomaru (their meatball).

All Commonwealth aircraft in the Pacific did the same, btw.

 

[SaparotRob]

I remember looking through an aircraft book as a kid. "What Air Force is that?" It was a picture of a Commonwealth plane with no meatball in the roundels.
Much better looking.