P-51 fuselage fuel tank

PAT303 · 2024-06-30T19:48:47-0400

pbehn said:
I dont know why the Spitfire gets it in the neck over range all the time, Allisson engined planes dont for their lack of altitude performance without a turbo. Until 1943 only the P-38 had range and high altitude performance, the P-47 didnt appear in service until April 1943.

I think you need to look outside the box a bit, ALL the issue's addressed by you were dealt with, all I'm saying once the Spitfire and Hurricane changed from the defensive in 1940 to offensive 1941 they didn't have the range to do it, the Americans on the other hand didn't stuff about, they got straight into looking at ways to extend the range of their fighters which eventually led, even with all it's issue's, to the VLR Mustang.

PAT303 · 2024-06-30T19:54:22-0400

MikeMeech said:
Hi
We should remember that the 'Dowding' system had to be flexible as it had to react to the enemy's changing tactics. Dowding's Despatch mentions the following in para 215:
"One very tiresome feature was that a considerable proportion of ultra-high-flying raids was missed by the Intelligence system, or reported so late that time was not available to climb and intercept. This made it necessary to employ standing patrols just below oxygen height (about 16.000 feet). These patrols climbed to intercept at extreme height when ordered to do so. This cut into the roots of the Fighter Command system, which was designed to ensure economy of effort by keeping aircraft on the ground except when required to make an interception."

So obviously they had the fuel to undertake those missions, indeed they were more worried about the oxygen supply lasting (these were standard aircraft) which is why they patrolled below oxygen height.

Mike

That's a problem with first identifying then plotting the intruders, extra fuel or higher climb rate isn't going to solve that issue.

MIflyer · 2024-06-30T21:46:16-0400

Reluctant Poster said:
The USAAF was slow to get drop tanks into production. They had the capability to use drop tanks but they weren't building them in anywhere near sufficient numbers until late 1943.

Nope, of course not. Heavily armed bombers can penetrate enemy air defenses if they fly at high altitude, where they will be all but undetectable and by use of turbosupercharged engines, will be moving too fast for any interceptor to reach them.
And it was not that it did not work, but that it did not work well enough. Flying in daylight at 15,000 ft over occupied Europe was suicidal, just for AAA.

PAT303 · 2024-06-30T21:57:44-0400

MIflyer said:
And it was not that it did not work, but that it did not work well enough.

They found out the hard way that bombers can't defend themselves no matter how many .50 cal brownings you stick in them, hence the reason for experimenting with both aux and drop tanks, the Americans reacted to the changing face of battle when the British steadfastly believed that it couldn't work, Portal held that view even after USAF single seat fighters were taking off from the Britain mainland on long range escort missions over Europe and the MkXIV in testing was shown to be a match for anything the Luftwaffe had with the 90G combat tank still fitted.

P-51 fuselage fuel tank

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