Percentage of Luftwaffe fighters with external cannon pods 1944-45?

Mike Williams · Nov 26, 2020

Messerschmitt BF 109 im Einsantz bei der III./Jagdeschwader 27, Jochen Prien, Peter Rodeike, Gerhard Stemmer, page 247

"Im August 1943 wurde die III./JG 27 in Wein-Götzendorg mit neuen Messerschmitts ausgerüstet; dabei handelte es sich um Bf 109 G-6, die in der Mehrheit dem Ausrüstungsstand der G-6 Reihe im Herbst 1943 entsprachen. ... Da ein grosser Teil der während der Auffrischung erhalten Messerschmitts aus Abgaben anderer Gruppen stammte, war das Erscheinungsbild der Maschinen der III./JG 27 im Herbst recht uneinheitlich - zahlreiche Bf 109 G-6 weisen noch den Sandabscheider der trop Ausführung auf, einige Maschine waren mit Gondelkanon (Rüstatz 6) ausgerüstet, weider andere hatten keinerlei Zusatzausrüstung."

Google translation with tweaks: III./JG 27 was equipped with new Messerschmitt Bf 109 G-6's at Wein-Götzendorg in August 1943; the majority of which corresponded to the equipment status of the G-6 series in autumn 1943. Since a large part of the Messerschmitts received during the re-equipment came from deliveries from other groups, the appearance of the machines of III./JG 27 was quite inconsistent in autumn - numerous Bf 109 G-6s still have the trop version of the sand filter, some were machines equipped with gondola canon while the others had no additional equipment.

Mike Williams · Nov 26, 2020

Messerschmitt BF 109 im Einsantz bei der III. und IV./Jagdeschwader 27, Jochen Prien, Peter Rodeike, Gerhard Stemmer, page 375, 411

"Bei ihrer Aufstellung im Mai 1943 erhielt die IV./JG 27 neben einigen älteren Maschinen der Baureihen F-4 trop und G-2 trop ihre ersten 15 Bf 109 G-6; abgebiltet hier ist eine Maschine mot Zusatztank unter dem Rumpf und zusätzlicher Flächenbewaffnung durch MG 151/20 als sog. " Gondelwaffen", wie sie anfangs noch üblich waren."

When it was set up in May 1943, IV./JG 27 received its first 15 Bf 109 G-6s in addition to some older machines of the F-4 trop and G-2 trop series; Pictured here is a machine with an additional tank under the fuselage and additional wing armament of MG 151/20, so-called "gondola weapons", as they were initially common.

"Auch während des Einsatzes in der Reichsverteidigung im Frühjahr 1944 war die IV./JG 27 ausschliesslich mit der Bf 109 G-6 ausgerüstet. Gondelwaffen wurden im Frühjahr 1944 kaum noch verwendet, da sich die damit ausgerüsteten Maschinen kaum noch gegenüber den P-51 und P-47 des Begleitschutzes der amerikanischen Viermot-Pulks behaupten konnten."

IV./JG 27 was equipped exclusively with the Bf 109 G-6 during its use in the defense of the Reich in the spring of 1944. Gondola weapons were hardly used any more in the spring of 1944, as the machines equipped with them could hardly hold their own against the P-51s and P-47s escorting the American heavy bomber groups.

Milosh · Nov 26, 2020

Mike Williams said:
IV./JG 27 was equipped exclusively with the Bf 109 G-6 during its use in the defense of the Reich in the spring of 1944. Gondola weapons were hardly used any more in the spring of 1944, as the machines equipped with them could hardly hold their own against the P-51s and P-47s escorting the American heavy bomber groups.

Wasn't this also the reason the Fw190A lost their double gun 20mm pods?

chuter · Nov 26, 2020

Koopernic said:
Do you know why the wing canon were removed on the Me 109 F/G thereby forcing the use of gun pods when engaging bombers? It seems inexplicable given plans to reintroduce integrated MK108 wing canon in the Me 109K6?

The very early 109s had very reasonable control forces and harmony, but as the series' speeds increased the ailerons began to lose effectiveness culminating in the higher speeds of the E model. The F had a redesigned wing that included completely new ailerons (and flaps) to improve high speed aileron response and eliminating the wing guns improved roll response further. Unfortunately for the 109, the new F model wing was found to be a pinch too small in total area so elliptical wing tips were added to solve that problem while negatively impacting the newly improved roll response ... oh, well. The K model was originally intended to have boost tabs (also known as flettner or servo tabs) on the ailerons but, although boost tab equipped ailerons were produced in very small numbers and installed on some K's* the tabs were riveted in place to inactivate them.

*I have a copy of a G10 factory drawing that shows the deflection angles for these ailerons as well as the boost tabs but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that any G10s had them installed, activated or not.

Koopernic · Nov 27, 2020

chuter said:
The very early 109s had very reasonable control forces and harmony, but as the series' speeds increased the ailerons began to lose effectiveness culminating in the higher speeds of the E model. The F had a redesigned wing that included completely new ailerons (and flaps) to improve high speed aileron response and eliminating the wing guns improved roll response further. Unfortunately for the 109, the new F model wing was found to be a pinch too small in total area so elliptical wing tips were added to solve that problem while negatively impacting the newly improved roll response ... oh, well. The K model was originally intended to have boost tabs (also known as flettner or servo tabs) on the ailerons but, although boost tab equipped ailerons were produced in very small numbers and installed on some K's* the tabs were riveted in place to inactivate them.

*I have a copy of a G10 factory drawing that shows the deflection angles for these ailerons as well as the boost tabs but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that any G10s had them installed, activated or not.

One problem with the use of servo tabs, such as the use of flettner tabs, is that because the deflection force increases with the square of speed the same deflection force on the tab will lead to a squared defection force on the aileron which leads to a squared force on the airframe. Pilots rely on the same force on the controls producing the same force on the airframe. It's ok at bomber speed eg B29, He 177 but can cause problems at high speed. One way is to use springs to reduce tab deflection but this is often not enough. Late war American Navy fighters used NACA geared spring tabs which reduce deflection even further. The other problem with spring tabs is flutter. They are finicky to setup and develop. Not sure why they were not fitted. The late war P-38 had hydraulic boost, a better way, as did the Dornier Do 335 (Eric Brown complimented it as being less notchyt than p38). The Me 109 did get them on the rudder.

Percentage of Luftwaffe fighters with external cannon pods 1944-45?

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