Piaggio P-108 vs. Boeing B-17 -- Heavy Bomber Comparison

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by DAVIDICUS, Feb 26, 2005.

  1. DAVIDICUS

    DAVIDICUS Member

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    Let me start off by saying that while like many, I know a fair amount about the B-17, I know very little about the P-108.

    How do these two aircraft compare against each other as heavy bombers?
     
  2. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    I know lots about the P.108 however, it is my favourite plane after all :D

    And I say the P.108 is better 8)
     
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  3. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    any arguements to back yourself up??
     
  4. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    More advanced, could carry a bigger payload further, faster, just as well armed
     
  5. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    what whas the P.108's dammage tollerance like?? what was it's construction?? how reliable was she?? did she suffer any major problems?? what was her MTOW?? what were her engines rated at???
     
  6. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    I dont know what its damage tolerance or construction was like, its bloody hard finding information on it you know...

    Engines? 4 x 1350hp Piaggio radial engines..

    As far as I know it was reliable...

    The only major problem was that the controls were a little difficult to get to grips with...

    And what the hell is MTOW?
     
  7. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    maximum take off weight..........

    and i think you need to know how damage tollerent it is before you can make a claim like you are..............
     
  8. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    Maximum take-off weight was 29,885Kg, which I think is about 70,000lbs...

    Dude damage tolerance is going to be extremely hard to find, with only 163 being made it didnt see a lot of service...

    It was also a night bomber in case you wanted to know...
     
  9. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    ah well this changes things...........
     
  10. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    Im not sure that it was intended as a night bomber, but it was used, more often than not, at night.
     
  11. DAVIDICUS

    DAVIDICUS Member

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    cheddar cheese,

    Do you have some stats indicating that the P-108 was more advanced, could carry a bigger payload further, was faster and just as well armed? I always thought the B-17 was better armed.
     
  12. KraziKanuK

    KraziKanuK Banned

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    from the net, http://www.comandosupremo.com/P108.html (as a starting point)

    The Piaggio P.108 B was the only heavy four-engine bomber to see service with the Regia Aeronautica during World War Two. Too few were built to play a significant role in the war, only 163 P.108 Bs having been built. The P.108 B was an all-metal cantilever low-wing monoplane with an retractable under-carriage, driven by four 1,350 hp Piaggio P.XII radial engines. The first prototype was finished in 10/39 and had a very advanced defensive armament for its day of two 7.7 mm machine waist guns, a 12.7 mm machine gun in the lower turret and a similar weapon in the nose turret, and two remotely-controlled twin gun turrets in outer engine nacelles. The first Allied bomber with a similar armament was the Boeing B 29, developed four years later. The bomb load of the Piaggio comprised of 7,700 lbs, all carried internally in the bomb bay.

    The only unit of the Regia Aeronautica ever to fly the P.108 B was the 274th Long-Range Bombardment Group. This unit was formed in 5/41 around the first machines that came off the assembly lines. The training of the crews lasted far longer than anticipated and in 6/42 the 274th became operational. The most spectacular raids with the P. 108 B were flown in 10/42 when several night attacks against Gibraltar were undertaken from Sardinia. Several versions were derived from the P. 108 B: such as the P.108A, which had a 102 mm anti-shipping gun in the nose; the P.108C airliner and the P.108T transport. The latter two versions had a larger diameter fuselage for transporting passengers or freight. They were hardly used by the Regia Aeronautica, the main user being the German Luftwaffe. In 9/43, after the Italian armistice, the Luftwaffe had captured all fifteen P.108 Cs and P.108 Ts built. They were used at the Russian front, as part of Luftflotte 2, where they performed sterling duties, among others during the evacuation of the Crimea in 1944.

    Article by JDG

    Model Piaggio P 108
    Horsepower 1350 x 4
    Engine Piaggio P.IIX RC 35
    Max Speed 420 km at 3,900 m
    Range 3,520 Km
    Max Elevation 8,050 m
    Wingspan 32 m
    Height 7.70m
    Weight 17,320 Kg
    Max Weight 29,885 Kg
    Length 22.92m
    Crew 6
    Payload 3,500 Kg
    Armament 6 x 12,7 mm + 1 x 12,7 mm + 2 x 7.7 mm
     
  13. DAVIDICUS

    DAVIDICUS Member

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    Below is information from Boeing's website regarding the B-17G:

    Span: 103 feet 9 inches (B-17G)
    Length: 74 feet 9 inches (B-17G)
    Gross weight: 65,000 pounds (B-17G)
    Top speed: 287 mph (B-17G)
    Cruising speed: 150 mph (B-17G)
    Range (max.): 3,750 miles (B-17G)
    Ceiling: 35,600 feet (B-17G)
    Power: Four 1,200-horsepower Wright R-1820-97 engines (B-17G)
    Accommodation: 2 pilots, bombardier, radio-operator, 5 gunners (B-17G)
    Armament: 11 to 13 machine guns, 9,600-pound bomb load (B-17G)
     
  14. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    The B-17G never usually carried that amount...usually about 5-6000lbs...
     
  15. DAVIDICUS

    DAVIDICUS Member

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    I thought they ordinarily carried more. At any rate, I think the maximum bomb payload was higher than the P-108. I understand that the B-17 could carry 17,000lb. payloads for short distances. Also, the armament appears to have been much heavier.
     
  16. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    Yes, it could carry a heavier load, but the P.108 could carry a heavier load further. It could also carry 3 torpedos.

    It may have heavier armament, but It is stil fairly primative. If you look at the P.108, you will notice it has remote gun turrets, rather like that of the B-29 - and we're talking 5 years earlier and by a country with not nearly as many resources.
     
  17. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    how do resorces count towards a turret design?? and do you know they worked?? they could have been useless, not much ammo and prone to damage..............
     
  18. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    Ive not seen any evidence saying so...I dont know the ammo count though, like I say, information is extremely hard to find...
     
  19. the lancaster kicks ass

    the lancaster kicks ass Active Member

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    i appreciate that but you need info like that before you can make claims like you are.........
     
  20. cheddar cheese

    cheddar cheese Active Member

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    A wile back I did see a site that said that the only real problem was that the controls were a little difficult to get to grips with...If any of the things you mentioned were a problem then I think they would also have been listed...
     
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