Please help with ID'ing this aircraft part.

[GarfyB]

Hello,

I am really struggling to ID this aircraft part. It appears to be a channel for a sliding canopy, but also contains perspex/glass itself. This would suggest that this is part of a fixed canopy, which the main canopy slides over (does that make sense?), similar to a Spitfire, Miles Magister, Harvard, etc.

I've tried to get the Inspection stamps ID'd on another site, but with no success.

**Eidit: I forgot to mention that I found this near an Bomber Command OTU airfield ('43 - '46) in the south midlands of England.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Garth.

 

[ThomasP]

Unless it was found in New Malden, the only number I see that may be indicative is the 331, which is the type number for a variant of the Spitfire Mk Vb. However, many Mk V airframes were rebuilt as Mk IX, so the wreck could be listed as a Mk IX. Just a WAG.

 

[MiTasol]

28131 331 (which is probably officially -331 or /331) is unlikely to be a Spitfire part. Not impossible at this stage, just unlikely.

If a Supermarine part, which seems very possible given the part number layout, it would be from a type 281, major assembly 31, and be subpart 331.

It is almost certainly a British part as, from my experience, only the Brits used formed tail rivets like in those photos. I have no experience on other European aircraft (except one day on an Me-108) so other European nations may have had the same practice.

As I understand it the way the Supermarine part numbers work, from working on several Spitfires, plus the technical drawing collection I have, and the parts list for the PR XIX, is that the number for the Spitfire Mk 1 parts started with 300 then two digits that identify the assembly (27 for fuselage assembly and 35 for the seat) then a slash that identifies the individual piece. I should note that when the part number is stamped on the part the slash is usually omitted so 30035/55 appears as 30035 55 on the part (or even just 55 occasionally).

So 30000 is the General Arrangement (GA) (or basic layout) for the Mk I and 34900 is the GA for the Mk V.

30027/735 is the front web plate on the firewall/wing centre section for the Mk 1. This part was used until the type 349 when it was replaced by part number 34927/7 and the part number of the major assembly (fuselage) then became 34927. Obviously there are many other changes but this illustrates the way the system worked. There are at least 61 sheets containing 349 prefix parts so that indicates at least 61 parts that differ from all previous types.

Using the seat as another example the basic seat installation as used on the Mk I is 30035 and the seat mounting bracket that fits on the lower longeron is 30035/55 or 56 (they are handed) and the bushing is 30035/57. On the Mk XIX exactly the same parts are used as on the Mk I. The seat however is 39035 and was introduced on the type 390.

Parts that are carried over unchanged from earlier Supermarine aircraft are also included in this seat - a significant number from the type 224.

The Mk XIX master parts list includes other parts from the types 221, 223, 230, 236, 270, 275 and 285 but nothing I could see for assembly 31. The Spitfire parts themselves jump from 30027 to 30033 so this suggests a component from a different type of aircraft like a flying boat or seaplane or whatever else Supermarine built. I did not go thru the whole parts listing but doubt it includes 31 parts.- as you can see the quality is "poor". If someone knows type numbers for the Seagull or other earlier aircraft the prefix for them would help this person find at least the first type the part was used on. Seagull V which became Walrus was type 236 so type 281 postdates that.

I do not have any drawings for assembly 31 but type 390 assembly 30 is the Malcolm canopy and windscreen installation shown below so the transparency attached hints that they are related.

 

[ThomasP]

There was 1 pre-production model of the Vickers Wellesley Mk I (K7556) designated Type 281. It crashed in New Malden and was written off. One of the mods on the Type 281 was a new canopy design/arrangement. Maybe the part number for the new canopy, originally used on the Type 281, was carried over to the production Wellesley? The first production batch of the Wellesley Mk I were designated Type 287.

Note that some sources list the aircraft involved in the crash in New Malden as the first production Wellesley Mk I (K7713), but I believe this is incorrect.

 

[MiTasol]

I think Thomas has it. Unless the whole canopy was redesigned, which is very unlikely, that will be a Wellesley canopy part.

As an aside - the Supermarine part numbering is not dissimilar to the part numbering used by Bell, Curtiss and NAA during ww2.

Bell used a two digit model number followed by a three digit assembly number and a two digit subpart number. Parts used on earlier models were carried over into later models. Some parts had a suffix.

Curtiss used a two digit model number followed by a two (sometimes three on the P-40N) digit assembly number and a three digit subpart number. Parts used on earlier models were carried over into later models. There are a lot of 75- (P-36) numbers in all P-40s. Short nose P-40s (model 87) surprisingly do not have a lot of short nose (model 81) parts. Some parts had a suffix.

NAA used a two digit model number followed by a five digit part number with the first two digits identifying the assembly. Parts used on earlier models were carried over into later models. There are quite a few 16- part numbers used in the model 122 Mustangs. Some parts had a suffix.

 

[GarfyB]

Thank you very much, both of you, for your detailed input. I'm staggered by the wealth of knowledge you both have.

Looking at the part I have, I'm pretty certain it's from a Wellesley, though I am quite shocked as I wasn't aware of any Wellesley's being stationed at RAF Turweston (17 OTU, '43-'45), unless it was used for drone towing or something similar. I'll go through the Station ORB and also my research to see if there were any losses locally.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

 

[ThomasP]

Hey GarfyB,

I do not know if this applies, but RAF Turweston was also used as a satellite airfield for various units. I do not know if any of these units operated the Wellesley.