Question About IJAAF Markings

JHumbert15

Recruit
8
4
Sep 20, 2020
Ohio
Hi All,

So, I'md like to preface this by saying I do have Thorpe's book on the IJAAF markings, and while overall it's pretty great, I am confused in one aspect, and I'm hoping someone may be able to clear a few things up.

Firstly, on page 77 (Individual, Formation, and Position Markings), he states "Aircraft within a SHOTAI [a flight, 3-4 a/c] were usually identified by the number of stripes used, such as 1 a/c, 1st stripe, 2nd a/c, 2 stripes etc." This makes sense to me, as these stripes would also be painted in the Chutai color. As there are (let's just say for right now) 3 flights in a Chutai, that means that 3 a/c have 1 stripe, 3 have 2 stripes, and 3 a/c have 3 stripes. That's 9 a/c in a Chutai. I also know sometimes a/c didn't follow this, and no stripes were used for position. Let's say there were.

My Question: How did they know which flight leader was theirs, as 3 a/c would've had 1 stripe? Was it just "pay attention to your flight leader"? He states on page 83 (Command Stripes and Panels) that Shotai leaders didn't usually have their planes marked specially. How did the squadron mates know which plane with 1 stripe was the flight leader and which plane with 2 or 3 stripes was also in their flight?

Secondly, in that same section and page (83, Command Stripes and Panels) he says "Fuselage stripes were occasionally used to denote leadership. Usually they were reserved for Chutai id or positioning of the aircraft within the Chutai, one two or three stripes for the particular Shotai." (This second sentence confuses me a little, now he makes it sound like the stripes are the # of the shotai, not the position of the a/c in the shotai like page 77. This is, unless he means it can be either, in which case now stripes can mean 3 things- position in a Shotai, Shotai # within a Chutai, or command markings. ).

My Question: How did they determine the difference between whether a stripe was for a/c position in a flight (Shotai) or a command stripe? The drawings in the book make them look almost the same.

Example: If I had 3 Stripes on my a/c, couldn't that mean that I am the 3rd a/c in 1 of the 3 flights of a given Chutai, but also that I am a senior officer or someone of command? Or potentially that I am Shotai #3 (but not necessarily a/c #3 in a Chutai's Shotai)

If anyone can help me understand this better I'd appreciate it.


Thanks in Advance!
Jake
 

Shinpachi

Major
10,241
7,755
Feb 17, 2008
Osaka
Basic identification was made by the Sentai's marking color for Chutai, the number of stripes on the fuselage for Shotai and the number of stripes or numerical characters on the vertical tail for order but this was not necessarily enough to identify as you wonder. In the field, it seems that they were distinguished by combining the number of stripes and colors but this was not necessarily common to each Sentai squadron. No way but to check each rule by the Sentai in which you are interested.
 

JHumbert15

Recruit
8
4
Sep 20, 2020
Ohio
Basic identification was made by the Sentai's marking color for Chutai, the number of stripes on the fuselage for Shotai and the number of stripes or numerical characters on the vertical tail for order but this was not necessarily enough to identify as you wonder. In the field, it seems that they were distinguished by combining the number of stripes and colors but this was not necessarily common to each Sentai squadron. No way but to check each rule by the Sentai in which you are interested.
So in the case of fuselage stripes, the only way to know whether or not they signified the Shotai or they were command stripes was to know how the specific Sentai used them?

Could the fuselage stripes be used as the aircraft's position/order in the Shotai (1st a/c 2nd a/c etc)?

Essentially, I feel like the answer to my questions is that the stripes can mean all 3 (command, order, or Shotai # within the Chutai), and to know what they did mean you have to know what the specific Sentai used. Does that seem correct?

Sorry for all the questions, but I would like to understand this better.

Thanks!
 

Shinpachi

Major
10,241
7,755
Feb 17, 2008
Osaka
So in the case of fuselage stripes, the only way to know whether or not they signified the Shotai or they were command stripes was to know how the specific Sentai used them?

Could the fuselage stripes be used as the aircraft's position/order in the Shotai (1st a/c 2nd a/c etc)?

Essentially, I feel like the answer to my questions is that the stripes can mean all 3 (command, order, or Shotai # within the Chutai), and to know what they did mean you have to know what the specific Sentai used. Does that seem correct?

Sorry for all the questions, but I would like to understand this better.

Thanks!
Sorry but probably you are misunderstanding Japanese as it's like asking these guys "What is the design rule for your bike?"

Kamikaze bikers
Kamikaze_bikers.jpg

Source: 暴走族 - Wikipedia
 

Users who are viewing this thread