Not wanting another 'all singing, all dancing RAF' this time, rather take an idea from another forum - just a host of improvements made in 1939 to mid 1940 that might snowball in a more capable RAF for the BoB, and, if possible, BoF. Improvements can range from organization, tactics, whole aircraft and aircraft-related items. The 'cut-off' date (or, date to start with improvements) is March 15th 1939 - date the German army entered Czechia.
RAF, a bit better 1939-40
- Thread starter tomo pauk
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Glider
Captain
Back to my old favourite. Switch the Battles for Skua's and give the RAF a decent support aircraft. It would have helped the Army considerably and may even have saved the fall of France. It almost certainly have bought time as a result the UK would have been better prepared, more pilots trained and fighters built.
- Thread starter
- #3
Some suggestions of different importance:
- pressure carbs on engines, at least for fighters (a bit better speed and ceiling, less/no problems with starting a dive)
- try to train at least Battle and Blenheim crews in dive bombing
- Defiant as a fighter-bomber; deploy it in France
- drop tanks on fighters, at least on Spitfire
- see how well your navigators can actually do their job when in bad weather and/or during the night
- pressure carbs on engines, at least for fighters (a bit better speed and ceiling, less/no problems with starting a dive)
- try to train at least Battle and Blenheim crews in dive bombing
- Defiant as a fighter-bomber; deploy it in France
- drop tanks on fighters, at least on Spitfire
- see how well your navigators can actually do their job when in bad weather and/or during the night
Shortround6
Major General
Or at least low level bombing, Bomb sight unusable below 3,000ft means it's up to the pilot's judgement.
Something that allows bombing at less than 3,000ft against bridges and ships.
Build Fairey P.4/34's instead
the Defiant, aside form a target tug just has too little going for it and needs too much modification to do anything else, no matter how much Boulton Paul may have wanted orders for aircraft.
Darn hard to put a bomb on the center line what with the landing gear and radiator. even if you yank the turret you have a heavier than needed airframe. Fuel tanks are in the wing just outboard of the landing gear, has to be moved if you want forward firing guns. Has a wing between the Hurricane and Spitfire in size, no extra lifting capacity. Bascily it was a waste of time, effort and material. Build Fulmars for land use instead
easy and doable, assuming you can take a cricket bat to somebody in the air ministry and get them to approve constant speed propellers at the date you mentioned. drop tank and fixed pitch props are not going to play well together.
Yep, finding the right country should be step one in building a strategic bombing force. The Germans did NOT come up with the beam systems between the fall of France and the start of the BoB. They may have become operational at that time but nobody at the end of June said
" hey, we know have to attack England, we better build a navigation system that allows us to find British cities".
Admiral Beez
Major
Can the Battle be made to divebomb? I'd love to see the Skua with a 20mm cannon in its bomb recess.
Glider
Captain
Simple reply
Can the Battle be made to divebomb? No
I'd love to see the Skua with a 20mm cannon in its bomb recess Why?
Admiral Beez
Major
Panzerknacker.
But really, I'd be happy if we can get more bombs onto the Skua. Add that, and a radio for troops to call in Skua CAS and you're all set.
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Shortround6
Major General
The Battle was strong enough to dive bomb. Some crews practiced dive bombing, sort of, they dived and pulled out but rarely released even practice bombs. The planes were never fitted with dive bombing sights, or dive brakes. The 2 position prop wasn't an asset for dive bombing either.
Not sure how the Skua aims the 20mm cannon. The Hispano won't synchronize through the prop and trying to aim and fire with a gun that is off axis is rather difficult.
Not sure how the Skua aims the 20mm cannon. The Hispano won't synchronize through the prop and trying to aim and fire with a gun that is off axis is rather difficult.
Shortround6
Major General
The problem for the British (and French) for CAS in 1940 was that few, if any, of the available aircraft had armor or self sealing fuel tanks and the German army AA suite was of level unseen up until that time (nothing compared to what it would be later) and the British/French army AA suite quite honestly sucked so the German CAS aircraft didn't have the odds stacked so far against them.
The Skua might have been slower than the Battle at low level or it may have been a toss up. Skua fighter is good for 204mph at sea level?
In any case both transit speed and attack speed are slow for both, climb is poor, ability to perform evasive maneuvers may favor the Skua?
But attacking targets defended by twin Mg 34s on AA mounts, single 20mm guns and 37mm guns in unprotected aircraft is going to be costly.
Battle, Lysander and Blenheim, all suffered greatly in the Battle for France and I see no reason to believe the Skua would fare any better.
Better co-operation between bomber units and fighter escort might have helped.
The hard truth is that the British didn't have enough forces (army or air units) in France to make any real difference to the outcome (Dunkirk takes place a week later?)
My own hobby horse is that the British could have had a much more effective coastal command at the start of the war with only a bit more preparation (and the already mentioned cricket bat applied to a few heads, or more than a few). Swipe as many squadrons of Blenheim IVs from bomber Command as you can and replace a number of the Anson squadrons. Form up a couple of strike wings of Blenheims, Try hanging a torpedo under the Blenheim, You aren't going to get Beauforts or Bothas until 1940 and you don't need a crystal ball to see that, A few squadrons to tide coastal command over until the new plane (take the Botha out back and shoot, stab, strangle and throw in the river with an anvil tied to it) gets into production. Try to order Catalina's a bit earlier, 6-12?
The Skua might have been slower than the Battle at low level or it may have been a toss up. Skua fighter is good for 204mph at sea level?
In any case both transit speed and attack speed are slow for both, climb is poor, ability to perform evasive maneuvers may favor the Skua?
But attacking targets defended by twin Mg 34s on AA mounts, single 20mm guns and 37mm guns in unprotected aircraft is going to be costly.
Battle, Lysander and Blenheim, all suffered greatly in the Battle for France and I see no reason to believe the Skua would fare any better.
Better co-operation between bomber units and fighter escort might have helped.
The hard truth is that the British didn't have enough forces (army or air units) in France to make any real difference to the outcome (Dunkirk takes place a week later?)
My own hobby horse is that the British could have had a much more effective coastal command at the start of the war with only a bit more preparation (and the already mentioned cricket bat applied to a few heads, or more than a few). Swipe as many squadrons of Blenheim IVs from bomber Command as you can and replace a number of the Anson squadrons. Form up a couple of strike wings of Blenheims, Try hanging a torpedo under the Blenheim, You aren't going to get Beauforts or Bothas until 1940 and you don't need a crystal ball to see that, A few squadrons to tide coastal command over until the new plane (take the Botha out back and shoot, stab, strangle and throw in the river with an anvil tied to it) gets into production. Try to order Catalina's a bit earlier, 6-12?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Putting torpedoes on Blenheims might've been a good idea. At Midway, B-26's and PBY's had jury rigged torpedo mounts. A PBY made the only successful American torpedo attack at Midway against the Akebono Maru.
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Admiral Beez
Major
At Malaya and Ceylon that might have been useful.
fastmongrel
1st Sergeant
Get ROTOL and DeHavilland producing earlier and lots more Constant Speed and feathering propellers so every front line aircraft is so equipped.
Start work on FM VHF radio the technology existed it just needs shrinking into a lightweight package.
Improved night time navigation training. At least try and hit the right country.
Start work on FM VHF radio the technology existed it just needs shrinking into a lightweight package.
Improved night time navigation training. At least try and hit the right country.
Admiral Beez
Major
Get the Hawker Typhoon's airframe fixed and the Sabre engine and the 20mm cannon made reliable earlier in 1941. That's give the Axis a fright.
- Thread starter
- #14
Admiral Beez
Major
Sure. Make the RAF a little better in 1939-40 leads to improvements in 1941 onwards.
In June 1940, years after it was first run the Napier Sabre was finally approved by the RAF, but still quality control delayed its widespread introduction to 1942. Improve this and get the Sabre approved in 1939 and the Typhoon can enter earlier service.
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Shortround6
Major General
heck, just try and get a decent supply of .303 incendiary ammo. Unfortunately the timing is tight.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Ssshhhh. Don't say anything. I'm waiting for Jutland to pop up.
