Rare vids of IJN carrier aircraft ops
- Thread starter Admiral Beez
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Admiral Beez
Major
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Admiral Beez
Major
Watching the first vid makes me feel that the amenities and accommodations for pilots on IJN carriers was more Klingon than USN.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
mmmm...fish heads and Gagh. Oh boy!
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Don't know if you've read "Shattered Sword" but in it, the authors have a good comparison between IJN and USN carrier life, both for the crew and the officers. Also a very informative page where they compare and contrast the flag arrangements vis a vis Akagi v. USN CV (Enterprise & Yorktown in this case).
On Akagi, Nagumo and his staff were crammed into a small bridge alongside the captain and his staff with no real place to withdraw and have discussions and planning sessions in a quiet private setting. While aboard Enterprise and Yorktown, admirals and their staff had their own area's that even the Captain needed an invitation to get in (sort of) with their own communications suite and facilities for discussion and planning in private. It's inferred by them in the book that being in a cramped, noisy fish bowl also affected Nagumo's decision making process.
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Admiral Beez
Major
With no Treaty displacement limitations why did the IJN's designers think this tiny island was sufficient?
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Many of the early carriers had no island superstructure but still I agree with you. The IJN had taken much inspiration from the RN. The HMS Eagle had a large island superstructure. I'm not sure of the configuration of HMS Glorious at the time of the conversion of Kaga and Akagi.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
There's a third HM carrier I'm thinking about. I can't remember which one.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Okay, maybe this is a thread of its own but U.S.S. Yorktown is the most beautiful ship of the Second World War.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
CV -5
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Admiral Beez
Major
Nice. But if it's size of island relative to size of ship, HMS Hermes wants a word.
Put Hermes' island on Nagumo's flagship and the Admiral and his staff have plenty of space to layout their maps and strategize in peace.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
That's the one I couldn't remember!
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Admiral Beez
Major
Take away the funnel and HMS Glorious' island is about the same size as IJNS Kaga's.
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- #15
Admiral Beez
Major
One thing I don't understand is why none of the carrier operators included an accommodation deck directly below the flight deck. This would have freed up a lot of space, and served as spaced armour protection for the fight deck. Today's CVN's have this, called the Gallery deck, where the pilots sleep.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I'm thinking:
1) carrier ops still pretty new and no one thought of it.
2) not much room on a sub 25,000 ton aircraft carrier even if someone did.
1) carrier ops still pretty new and no one thought of it.
2) not much room on a sub 25,000 ton aircraft carrier even if someone did.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
One of the reasons I believe is that even in 1940 when the Essex class were being laid down, no one REALLY knew the total extent of carrier warfare yet. Even at Midway Parshall and Tully state that it was a weapons system being "cut from whole cloth", as such it was an emerging technology that was still a year or two (after Midway) coming into full fruition. Heck, the USN hadn't even operated a cohesive carrier battle group at that point, and it can be argued that they didn't do a very good job of that at Midway either. A 1944 USN CBG would have put down Akagi, Kaga, Soryu and Hiryu as a matter of course and then went about their business.
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Whilst I agree with your sentiment, that's a picture of U. S. S. Enterprise, CV 6, the most decorated warship of WWII. I would say the Yorktown class were the most beautiful ships (eye of the beholder of course).
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- #19
Admiral Beez
Major
To be fair, without the losses to date 1944 an IJN CBG would have four Taiho class, with radar well developed, radio-equipped A7M Reppu fighters and Aichi B7A torpedo bombers and Yokosuka D4Y dive bombers, each properly sorted out prior to service (as opposed to being rushed into service with faults). Otherwise, a RN CBG of 1941 could wipe out the IJN CBG of 1944.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I knew that. The "6" on the forward end of the flight deck tipped me off. However, when I see shots of Yorktowns, I always think of the picture of the brand new CV-5. The one Drachinifel uses in his vid about WW II carriers. There's also a very slight difference of the bridge between the two. Damn if I can remember what it is.
There were many real tragedies of the Second World War. Ones that could only be healed through Divine intervention. A couple of lesser tragedies that could've been prevented by mortal means were:
Scrapping U.S.S. Yorktown
Scrapping H.M.S. Warspite
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