RCAF Snowbirds 431 Air Demonstration Squadron news (1 Viewer)

[Admiral Beez]

Looks like the Snowbirds might be on the rocks.

Snowbirds could be grounded for years, Conservatives warn

The summer of 2026 could be Canadians’ last chance to see the Royal Canadian Air Force’s iconic Snowbirds aerobatic team for years, a Conservative MP says.

www.ctvnews.ca

If the RCAF Snowbirds are looking for a new aircraft, I'd suggest they include the KAI TA-50 in their list, as used by the Republic of Korea Air Force (ROKAF) Black Eagles. We could ask the Koreans to throw in two dozen aircraft as part of the KSS-III submarine deal. While Hanwha Ocean and Korea Aerospace Industries are not directly connected, they are both part of the South Korean government's defense industrial ecosystem.

 

[Greyman]

Or go full-circle ... just in time for the 100th anniversary ...

 

[Admiral Beez]

Or go full-circle ... just in time for the 100th anniversary ...

View attachment 878067

Jets or nothing, thanks. As an airshow fan I always see prop aerobatic teams as 2nd tier. Parachute and glider teams are 3rd.

 

[airdave]

Jets or nothing, thanks. As an airshow fan I always see prop aerobatic teams as 2nd tier. Parachute and glider teams are 3rd.

Agreed.
Once they get their Gripen purchase sorted (as well as the F35 delivery), the RCAF will have some surplus CF-18s.
Blue Angels are still using them.
Unfortunately, that could be many years ahead.

 

[EwenS]

The Blue Angels are on their third generation of F-18.

F-18A/B Hornet 1986 to 2010
F-18C/D Hornet 2010 to 2020
F-18E/F Super Hornet since 2020.

The Canadian CF-18A/B Hornets were originally built 1982-1988 and refurbished / upgraded several times since. By the time Canada gets around to replacing them on the front line they will have next to no fatigue life left in the airframes. I expect you will all want to see a bit more than slow fly-bys.

 

[EwenS]

Another option is the Leonardo (formerly Alenia Aermacchi) M-346 Master. This will become the mount of the Italian Air Force display team, the Frecce Tricolori, in 2027. It is already in service with 6 air forces, with more having placed orders.

Alenia Aermacchi M-346 Master - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given current relations with the USA, Canada will need to sort out its pilot training. Advanced training since 2024 has been carried out as part of the Euro-NATO Joint Jet Training Program undertaken in the USA on the T-6A Texan II and T-38 Talon.

 

[airdave]

The Canadian CF-18A/B Hornets were originally built 1982-1988 and refurbished / upgraded several times since. By the time Canada gets around to replacing them on the front line they will have next to no fatigue life left in the airframes. I expect you will all want to see a bit more than slow fly-bys.

I'm well aware of how old the CF-18s are, but they have been kept in tip-top shape and up to date.
There's many more years in them, and plenty of parts available.
Hey, they can't be any worse than the Tutors!

A jet mechanic friend of mine worked with the dismantling and storage of surplus parts for the Snowbirds.
This was more than 20 years ago, and they were running out of parts and reliable aircraft at that time.
There was talk at the time of shutting them down because they had no more viable Tutors in 2000.
In fact, they've been grounded more than once (quietly) for that very reason.
But over the years, skilled people have worked real hard to keep the 65 year old aircraft still flying.

Yes, I do want to see more than slow fly-bys...thats one reason the Snowbird's Tutor never thrilled me.
I'm a Blue Angels (and Red Arrows) fan to be honest.
But I do offer a model of the Tutor.

 

[Sisu]

Well I for one will be VERY disappointed when we lose them. They have been my favourite team for a very long time...

 

[Sisu]

According to a guy I know who has time, including aerobatic time, in both the Tutor and the P-51 the former performs very much like the latter.

 

[Tiger11]

I still remember the great Golden Hawks, flying the Canadair Sabre Mk.5. Flew 1959-1964. Disbanded for budget reasons. Sad.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Given current relations with the USA, Canada will need to sort out its pilot training. Advanced training since 2024 has been carried out as part of the Euro-NATO Joint Jet Training Program undertaken in the USA on the T-6A Texan II and T-38 Talon.

Are all F-35 pilots trained in the US?

 

[smutny]

Comments like these do make me sad. Noise being valued over the art of precision flying....

Jets or nothing, thanks. As an airshow fan I always see prop aerobatic teams as 2nd tier. Parachute and glider teams are 3rd.

I've worked with all three North American jet teams as an air boss, and various other civilian teams, and by far, the Snowbirds are the most fun.

There are some important aspects to the Snowbirds' program that are not being considered in these discussions throwing about replacement airframes.

Two seats - The Snowbirds travel from site to site with crew chiefs and announcer so they're ready to roll when they arrive. Unlike the Blues with Fat Albert and T-Birds with a C-17, the Snowbirds support arrives in a truck and trailer usually hours if not a day behind the aircraft. The Tutor's second seat and wing storage allows enough logistical support to turn the jets quickly upon arrival. Also, with all the aircraft being two seat, they can do multiple press and KI rides at once, as opposed to a single ship and having to pare down the list of VIP's.

Performance parameters - The Tutor can land at shorter runways than most other demo team aircraft. If you look at their schedules over the years, the Snowbirds do a lot of shows at rural locations. I've air bossed shows in Canada where I had the Snowbirds on site and the CF-18 Demo having to be remote launched as the runway was too short, even with mobile arresting gear. Canada would lose a lot of rural air show support with higher performance aircraft.

Logistics - As mentioned, a good portion of the support crew travels in the airplanes. If they went to a single seat, higher performance aircraft, in order to have the same turnarounds, an additional transport aircraft would have to be tasked with the team. The RCAF doesn't have a lot of the mobile arresting gear units, it was not uncommon to be on the bubble of losing the CF-18 as a performer if the gear wasn't available or needing maintenance. Having to support two teams with that gear would be a big stretch, if it's even possible with current tasking.

Just food for thought when discussing possible replacements in these forums.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Two seats - The Snowbirds travel from site to site with crew chiefs and announcer so they're ready to roll when they arrive.

You reminded me of Capt. Jennifer Casey, a Snowbirds public affairs officer, who was killed during such a transport flight, and of the discussion of the part possibly played by the Tutor's older ejection seats.

Bird strike blamed in fatal crash of Canadian military Snowbird jet | CBC News

The Canadian air force has released the final report on last year's fatal crash of a Snowbird demonstration jet. The aircraft struck a small bird, which in turn caused an engine compressor failure. The jet was just taking off at the time.

www.cbc.ca

Snowbirds were waiting for new ejection seats before deadly crash. Now DND won’t say if gear was replaced

A more modern ejection system may have made low-altitude emergencies like the one that killed Capt. Jenn Casey more survivable, experts say.

www.thestar.com

I wonder if the Snowbirds now have their new seats.

Snowbirds To Get New Ejection Seats - Canadian Aviator

The Ottawa Citizen is reporting the RCAF has added a new ejection seat to the list of upgrades planned for the fleet of CT-114 Tutor aircraft. The change in a previously announced life extension program [...]

canadianaviator.com

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Italians want the job.

M-345 Tutor II: Ready for Canada’s Future Aircrew Training Program

The new M-345 Tutor II basic trainer aircraft is one of the cornerstones of Leonardo's offer for the Canadian Future Aircrew Training (FAcT) program. In this video, Test Pilot Quirino Bucci, Head of Test Pilot Training Programs for Leonardo’s Aircraft Division, presents in detail the main...

www.leonardo.com

 

[smutny]

You reminded me of Capt. Jennifer Casey, a Snowbirds public affairs officer, who was killed during such a transport flight, and of the discussion of the part possibly played by the Tutor's older ejection seats.

I had worked with Capt. Casey as a Snowbird and previously when she was on the CF-18 Demo team. That was a tragic loss, she was phenomenal representative of the Canadian Armed Forces.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I had worked with Capt. Casey as a Snowbird and previously when she was on the CF-18 Demo team. That was a tragic loss, she was phenomenal representative of the Canadian Armed Forces.

In reading the articles it's noted that Casey's pilot did not call out "eject-eject" but instead said "pull the handle". It's remarked that the unusual command may have resulted in Casey ejecting 0.4 seconds after the pilot.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjGPh1I0ULk

 

[GTX]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUFbMtiZP_4

 

[Admiral Beez]

Well I for one will be VERY disappointed when we lose them. They have been my favourite team for a very long time...

I guess we'll know more tomorrow.

Defence Minister expected to lay out future of Snowbirds’ jets on Tuesday

Aging planes may need to be temporarily grounded so they don’t weigh on broader military operations, former chief of defence staff says

www.theglobeandmail.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/6NNFz

 

[airdave]

CT-157 Siskin II turboprop.

I get that it's probably a great choice for Trainer, but it is ugly and awkward looking.
And it's a prop aircraft.
It's going to be very embarrassing on the tarmac, especially if parked next to a Blue Angels F-18. lol
Even a little Red Arrows jet.

 

[Admiral Beez]

And it's a prop aircraft. It's going to be very embarrassing on the tarmac, especially if parked next to a Blue Angels F-18. lol
Even a little Red Arrows jet.

Agreed, but to be fair, the Pilatus PC-21 is also flown by the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) Roulettes and the French Air Force's Mustang X-Ray Demo Teams. There are other national demo teams that also fly similar prop trainers. Finally, the RCAF is also buying the PC-21 for a renewed pilot training program.