Request for assistance: How to interpret an RAF Accident Card (MFC77)?

AL90 · Friday at 6:52 AM

MiTasol said:
View attachment 812381

Re the above.

It has been noted that the aircraft was probably descending as part of its planned bombing run however the 22 degrees may equally come from flying straight and level into a 22 degree rising slope.

I would suspect that the impact angle is actually a combination of decent angle and rising ground.

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Attached map and LIDAR gives a better idea of how the land rises from the valley floor up to Little Rollright. Had a trip on Google street view from the valley up to the village but the roads are bounded with ridiculously high hedges as are all the fields.

JensPlahte · Friday at 7:14 AM

AL90 said:
I think you have hit the nail on the head. Attached map and LIDAR gives a better idea of how the land rises from the valley floor up to Little Rollright. Had a trip on Google street view from the valley up to the village but the roads are bounded with ridiculously high hedges as are all the fields.

Alan and MiTasol... the CoI report describes debris being strewn over an area measuring several hundre meter each way (in a triangular shape I'd guess) ... and there is no mention of roads or houses in that area ... which could be a clue as to the exact location ... could it be possible that the aircraft coming in from a southerly direction struck a roadside hegde before proceeding uphill into a field, hitting the large tree on its way ... ? ... and one more thing Alan ... could you please provide the link to the topographical map? ... Best, Jens

Retattack · Friday at 8:31 AM

MiTasol said:
View attachment 812381

Re the above.

It has been noted that the aircraft was probably descending as part of its planned bombing run however the 22 degrees may equally come from flying straight and level into a 22 degree rising slope.

I would suspect that the impact angle is actually a combination of decent angle and rising ground.

Thanks. I was hoping someone would apply a critical eye to that report when posting it, and that is the most glaring point. Anything more than about 10 degrees seems aggressive to me, but I don't know anything about their procedures and am only familiar with much faster aircraft. 22 degrees is about 40% grade, very steep terrain, and the topo map of the area appears fairly gentle. In a modern US report, they'd report the dive angle, if known, and not the impact angle. 22 degrees is also a very precise finding, which suggests something like witness marks on the gyro. The report also mentions a small hill ("120' higher than base"), and perhaps meant they hit the side of that. But that really isn't consistent with earwitness testimony which suggests a recovery effort for a few seconds before impact, and a steep dive angle would.

Retattack · Friday at 8:53 AM

JensPlahte said:
Hi,

Watched the movie yesterday. Very interesting and educational!

I have also noted the slightly slanted twist of the report ...

I find your hypothetical account of the final minutes very helpful. And with my limited knowledge, also realistic and not overly speculative given the available information.

Then I am trying to reconstruct the positions of the crew members in and around the cockpit. Pilot Leseberg obviously in the pilot seat to the left. Wireless operator Nichols just behind the pilot. Bomb aimer Mitchell probably flat on his belly underneath getting ready for the bomb run exercise. Gunners Redmond and Foote in their respective positions in the rear turret and nose compartment. Lastly, navigators Harris and my granduncle. One probably in the navigator's compartment behind the wireless' position. And the other next to the pilot, likely assisting in altimeter adjustments, cloud gap identification, and remembering or forgetting to turn on the pitot head heater. What do you think? Makes sense?

Best, Jens

Hey Jens,

Your positioning seems correct to me, but I don't know much about the layout of a Wellington and even less about how they trained. I'm very doubtful that either pitot heat or altimeter setting would be significant, but in any event it would be the pilot's job to confirm they were properly set, so I wouldn't cast too much blame on the rest of the crew.

AL90 · Sunday at 6:07 AM

JensPlahte said:
Alan and MiTasol... the CoI report describes debris being strewn over an area measuring several hundre meter each way (in a triangular shape I'd guess) ... and there is no mention of roads or houses in that area ... which could be a clue as to the exact location ... could it be possible that the aircraft coming in from a southerly direction struck a roadside hegde before proceeding uphill into a field, hitting the large tree on its way ... ? ... and one more thing Alan ... could you please provide the link to the topographical map? ... Best, Jens

Hi Jens,
Link to the map.
Not sure about England but in Scotland the death certificate is usually very accurate and gives the name of the farm, distance and direction. For example 200yds west of Skitterflat Farm. In some cases there will be a grid reference.

Side by side georeferenced maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland

Request for assistance: How to interpret an RAF Accident Card (MFC77)?

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