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They didn't have it at Midway, but they actually did have radar, including on carriers. Shokoku got air search radar with a 100km range by August of 1942.
Their carrier fleet was superior in many ways to the USN fleet. It was vastly superior to the RN / FAA in almost every respect (number of aircraft carried, technical capacity to launch aircraft, quality and capability of naval aircraft etc.), and continued fighting effectively and posing a serious threat to the USN, which was their only serious opponent (or potential opponent) for a long time after Midway. Needless to say the RN needed to stay well away from them until the end of the war when they had already been beaten.
Ah, yes, the Japanese Ninja scout aircraft that could see in the dark (or clouds) as well as they could in daylight with their superior Japanese optics.The IJN did also have scout planes, which could function day or night, and they had their big flying boats and some of those had radar too.
The Battle of Santa Cruz was the pyric victory for the Japanese, they won but lost so many planes/crewmen that recovery to previous standards became impossible. Even a 1 1/2 year gap was not enough regain performance standards. And the US got better in the meantime.Well there were two major carrier battles in 1942 after Midway - Eastern Solomons in 8/42, Santa Cruz in Oct 42, and the IJN proved to be pretty effective in these. Battle of Santa Cruz Islands was considered a Japanese victory, albeit a costly one.
Ah, yes, the Japanese Ninja scout aircraft that could see in the dark (or clouds) as well as they could in daylight with their superior Japanese optics.
Everybody had planes that could fly at night, wither they should is different.
The question of scouting at night is different. Doing a night take-off or landing in order to be over the target zone (patrol area) during daylight (dawn or dusk) is different than actually trying to find ships in the dark. and again lets look at timing. The British were finding ships with airborne radar in early 1941 if not in 1940 (reliability got better).
from Title
this may or may not be 100% accurate so amend as needed.
Airborne Search Radars-type H-6, became operational: August 1942
Regarding the omnipresent big flying boats. (Emily's) they built 1 in Dec 1940, they built 2 pre production aircraft in 1941 and they built 14 production H8K1 production aircraft in 1941-42. These used Kasai 11 or 12 engines. The H8K2s with Kasai 22's don't show up until 1943-45.
The British could do in early 1941 what the Japanese could do in late 1942 (at the earliest) with radar.
according to the site the Japanese built 30 different types of radar sets during the war.
They built 7256 sets total of all kinds during the war.
They built 6 different types (or got 6 types operational) before April of 1944. This is ground/sea and air.
British were sticking radar on everything short of tanks in 1944. Ok Exaggeration but a lot of 4 engine bombers had two radars apiece, the H2S and the Monica tail warning radar.
They had radar on hundreds of MTBs and MGBs and just about anything bigger.
By late 1943 Beaufighters were getting 3cm radar in thimble noses.
The Battle of Santa Cruz was the pyric victory for the Japanese, they won but lost so many planes/crewmen that recovery to previous standards became impossible. Even a 1 1/2 year gap was not enough regain performance standards. And the US got better in the meantime.
Visual Scouting at night, even when you have good idea of where to look (between certain Islands) is rather weather/condition dependent. Moonlight/starlight vs overcast.In this case I'm not talking about could or should, but did. They did use their scout planes at night, mainly for naval gunnery spotting / dropping flares, but also for scouting. E7 and E13 type. That is what gave me the notion, not wishful thinking but reading the operational history.
Nobody is really arguing this, the point is that they are about 2 years behind the British, in scale of fitting (how many ships or what percentage of the fleet) and in practice Using radar for over a year or for just a few weeks). Practice in using radar in tactical planning, same sort of deal. It wasn't magic and took a while to sink into some commanders heads. It helped if they had had radar for months and leaned how much they could trust it and how much they couldn't (or trust the crew/s).Japanese "General purpose radar" (type 22) was being put on newly made destroyers and on the Kongo class battlecruisers in August and October of 1942, respectively, and then on June of 1943 on light cruisers. The more powerful type 21 was put on the Shokaku in August 1942 and on four light carriers in January 1943.
Nobody has been arguing that either. Point is that in 1942 the British had a much, much higher percentage of ships with radar than the US did let alone what the Japanese had. The US was fitting radar a bit quicker at the end of 1942 but then they had fewer ships with radar at the beginning of 1942. Not saying that all British ships had radar at the beginning either.Agreed, though it seems that the British ships didn't all get radar at the same time, based on some other informative posts in this thread.
I think the biggest problem the IJN had as far as aircrew was really their failure to implement a robust search and rescue system for their pilots. They really treated it as an afterthought, whereas the US put a great deal of effort and assets into it.
Just to add to that, the IJN cruisers fired 1,171 8" shells for two hits at around 18,000 yards.If I can turn the clock back a little regarding the effectiveness of the Japanese gunnery. I have been looking at the 2nd Battle of Java when the Exeter already damaged and limited to 23 kts, faced off against four Japanese Heavy Cruisers. These were the Ashigara and Myōkō, with the Nachi and Haguro.
The Japanese opened fire at 10.20, but didn't hit the Exeter until 11.20 when she was hit in the Boiler Room and was reduced to 4kts, effectively stopping her. Only then did the Japanese overwhelm the Exeter when she was hit a number of times and finished off by torpedo's.
That's hardly impressive shooting
Which radar are you thinking about?By late 1943 Beaufighters were getting 3cm radar in thimble noses.
Visual Scouting at night, even when you have good idea of where to look (between certain Islands) is rather weather/condition dependent. Moonlight/starlight vs overcast.
The planes with radar are going to be more successful, on average.
Nobody is really arguing this, the point is that they are about 2 years behind the British, in scale of fitting (how many ships or what percentage of the fleet) and in practice Using radar for over a year or for just a few weeks). Practice in using radar in tactical planning, same sort of deal. It wasn't magic and took a while to sink into some commanders heads. It helped if they had had radar for months and leaned how much they could trust it and how much they couldn't (or trust the crew/s).
Nobody has been arguing that either. Point is that in 1942 the British had a much, much higher percentage of ships with radar than the US did let alone what the Japanese had. The US was fitting radar a bit quicker at the end of 1942 but then they had fewer ships with radar at the beginning of 1942. Not saying that all British ships had radar at the beginning either.
It gave them a fair amount of redundancy.
Also remember that communications was still rather primitive. Both ship to ship and internal. Just because the ship with radar knew something was out there night time communications could be signal lamps. to let another ship know. Intership voice radio was single channel and subject to interception. This changed as the war went on, both with multi channels and with directional antennae's that reduced the chances of interception.
The type 21 and 22 radar as fitted to many IJN vessels was nowhere near good enough to use for fire control
as it's accuracy and resolution were too poor.
USN and RN ships were already getting radar that could read back shell splashes as opposed to the target without
any need to see the target. Way in front.
The Japanese radars were also poorly manufactured with a maximum time between breakdowns of around two
hours. The valves used generally only had a rate of manufacture of one in a hundred that actually worked.
On Yamato it was found that on average 1 in 6 to 1 in 5 times the radar sets wouldn't even start up as yet
another valve had blown. Technicians to be aboard ship were in short supply as well so most of the time
(if not all), when a valve or resistor blew the reason wasn't traced. The broken item was simply replaced, leaving
it ready to fail again at any time.
Just to add to that, the IJN cruisers fired 1,171 8" shells for two hits at around 18,000 yards.
Samar at Leyte saw 4 battleships, 6 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers and 11 destroyers taking on 6 escort carriers,
3 destroyers and 4 destroyer escorts (frigates) over two hours in daylight. The result, 2 escort carriers, 2 destroyers
and one escort sunk. Although US aircraft were used many were not armed for ship attack. In the end the IJN
also lost 3 heavy cruisers.
Again, in 1942, Hiei, Kirishima and the cruiser Chikuma vs destroyer USS Edsall. 1,335 rounds for one hit which didn't
sink the destroyer. So many rounds used and still aircraft had to be called in to finish off the destroyer.
The Japanese action report summary rated this action as a fiasco.
IJN gunnery proved to be bad even by World War One standards due to lack of training for long range engagements
coupled with poor fire control where all inputs had to be collated manually and calculations were also manual.
Both RN and USN systems already used mechanical inputs. Compared to allied systems the IJN manual system
in real combat was almost unusable.
Time for some cage rattling.
The RN was the single most experienced surface naval force to that time. In a surface engagement, day/night, no airplanes, I'd bet on the RN.
No, ABDA doesn't count.
Second only to the Chilean Navy, taught by Cochrane himself!Time for some cage rattling.
The RN was the single most experienced surface naval force to that time. In a surface engagement, day/night, no airplanes, I'd bet on the RN.
No, ABDA doesn't count.
The RN has been doing that stuff since Drake received his draft notice. Which navy had the most training and experience since, say about 1890? Tsushima? Manilla Bay? How does that compare to the experience of the Battles of the Dogger Bank, Jutland, Coronel, Falklands, Zeebrugge, ASW,...? Okay that's all I can think of now. My head hurts
Time for some cage rattling.
The RN was the single most experienced surface naval force to that time. In a surface engagement, day/night, no airplanes, I'd bet on the RN.
No, ABDA doesn't count.