- Thread starter
- #21
Alex Smart
Airman 1st Class
- 138
- Oct 25, 2018
Many thanks so yellow and blue. Is there any way that the aircrafts serial numbers can be traced from using the BT numbers ?
Seeking photos or links to 4 BFTS
- Thread starter Alex Smart
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #23
Alex Smart
Airman 1st Class
- 138
- Oct 25, 2018
Many thanks for your patience and cooperation.
BTW ... the Blue colour doesn't seem to be the earlier one called the Light Blue 23 used for the Army trainer aircraft until 1938. Then they switched to the True Blue used by the Navy. The difference is the blue tone. The LB23 was of the greenish tinge ( tourquise ) while the TB was darker and of the bluish tone. The yellow was called the Yellow 4. However it looks like there were many planes still wearing the earlier blue colour even in 1943.
the Light Blue 23 - FS 15109/ 35109
the True Blue - FS 15102/ 35102
the Yellow 4 - FS 13538/ 33583
- Thread starter
- #26
Alex Smart
Airman 1st Class
- 138
- Oct 25, 2018
Many thanks for the details about the paints. it explains the difference in shades of colour as seen in the two pictures.
As an extra, can you clear up which is correct
BT-13A or PT-13A ?
Alex
As an extra, can you clear up which is correct
BT-13A or PT-13A ?
Alex
Additionally ... here is a link to a thread we were discussing on the Blue colours
ww2aircraft.net
The BT-13A is the Vultee BT-13 Valiant while the PT-13A is the Stearman PT-13 Kaydet. So two different planes.
PT-13A
BT-13A
Paint match for FS 25095 blue
Yellow wings decals specifies FS 25095 for the Stearman PT-17 but I could not find any matching paint anywhere. The actual color blue on the original aircraft is very bright.. The closest I could come to matching this was Humbrol # 89 but it still is not accurate. In addition the FS 20595 does...
ww2aircraft.net
As an extra, can you clear up which is correct
BT-13A or PT-13A ?
Alex
The BT-13A is the Vultee BT-13 Valiant while the PT-13A is the Stearman PT-13 Kaydet. So two different planes.
PT-13A
BT-13A
IMHO the difference wasn't caused by using of two different colours for the planes but two different filters for taking of the two pictures.
- Thread starter
- #29
Alex Smart
Airman 1st Class
- 138
- Oct 25, 2018
Re the PT and BT if I am right in the link to the 4 BFTS websites kindly given in earlier posts both aircraft types were mentioned or have I gotten confused ?
Stearman's are mentioned but aren't Valiant's mentioned also ?
Stearman's are mentioned but aren't Valiant's mentioned also ?
Yes , these are mentioned as well. It is because the Stearmans were used for the primary training while the Valiants for the basic one and AT-6 for the advanced level. Later the basic training course was abandoned and the Valiants were given up for the training process. So initailly there were three aircraft types used for the training and then the two only.
BTW .. sorry I haven't noticed it earlier but the two you posted (BP-110 and BP-114 ) are the BT-13 but not the AT-6 (T-6).
And regarding the colours ... here a shot of the BT-13 with the same colour tones. The image was taken with a filter. But also it is said thet the serial for the plane is the 40-419. I have thought that could be possible that the serials for the BP-110 and 114 could be of the same way combined. What is more I would like to pay your attention to the USA Star noticed on the undersides. No the red dot what indicates the Insignia Specification Number 24102-K (Amend #3) issued on May 28th, 1942 and being used to June 29th, 1943. The BP-110 is marked with the same what indicates the 1942-1943 period.
the source: North American BT-14 - Price, Specs, Photo Gallery, History - Aero Corner
BTW .. sorry I haven't noticed it earlier but the two you posted (BP-110 and BP-114 ) are the BT-13 but not the AT-6 (T-6).
And regarding the colours ... here a shot of the BT-13 with the same colour tones. The image was taken with a filter. But also it is said thet the serial for the plane is the 40-419. I have thought that could be possible that the serials for the BP-110 and 114 could be of the same way combined. What is more I would like to pay your attention to the USA Star noticed on the undersides. No the red dot what indicates the Insignia Specification Number 24102-K (Amend #3) issued on May 28th, 1942 and being used to June 29th, 1943. The BP-110 is marked with the same what indicates the 1942-1943 period.
the source: North American BT-14 - Price, Specs, Photo Gallery, History - Aero Corner
- Thread starter
- #31
Alex Smart
Airman 1st Class
- 138
- Oct 25, 2018
Now you have me really confused.
Joe B's site has North American BT - 14 as serial numbers 40-1110 to 40-1360.
It also gives 40-419 as a Curtis P40E.
???
Joe B's site has North American BT - 14 as serial numbers 40-1110 to 40-1360.
It also gives 40-419 as a Curtis P40E.
???
I believe the confusion is that Wurgers photo in Post #30 is a Vultee BT-13/15 but the hyperlink under the photo is for the North American BT-14. The hyperlink opens to show BT-14 "320" s/n 40-1335. He also may have made a typo with the -13 & -14. The "BP" numbers have nothing to do with the actual serial number of the planes.
Post #15 BP-110 & Post #19 BP-114, BP-119 are Vultee BT-13/15 aircraft.
Primary Training - Boeing PT-13 & PT-17 (difference in the engine). Boeing-Stearman Model 75 - Wikipedia
Basic Training - Vultee BT-13 & BT-15 (difference in the engine). Vultee BT-13 Valiant - Wikipedia
Basic Training - North American BT-14, North American BT-9 - Wikipedia
Advanced Training - North American AT-6. North American T-6 Texan - Wikipedia
Photo for color reference only. Vultee BT-13A "L6" s/n 41-1312, star without red dot.
Last edited:
Oh ... I do apologize .. indeed that's the Vultee BT-13. Yesterday it was very late ( almost 2 o'clock at night my local time ) here when I was writing the post above and I was very tired. That's the reason for the mistake. I was thinking about the BT-13 but typed the BT-14.
The serials was just a possible idea for the way of finding the 110 and 119 ones. But I agree with Mjfur the BP numbers might not have anything in common with the aircraft serials. Edited the post above. So again sorry for making confused.
A
Alex Smart
please check on the PM. Make a focus on the last post there especially. 
BT-13 Valiant BP-109 ...
the source: 4 BFTS Vultee Valiant BT13 LAC Brooks, Training accident, Flacon Field, Mesa, Texas
BT-13 Valiant BP-109 ...
the source: 4 BFTS Vultee Valiant BT13 LAC Brooks, Training accident, Flacon Field, Mesa, Texas
Most likely s/n 40-994.A Alex Smart please check on the PM. Make a focus on the last post there especially.
BT-13 Valiant BP-109 ...
View attachment 797507
the source: 4 BFTS Vultee Valiant BT13 LAC Brooks, Training accident, Flacon Field, Mesa, Texas
Most likely s/n 40-994.
Just wonder if they followed any order with the serials and BP numbers while getting the planes for the school. If they did, the BP-110 could be 40-995 and the 40-1002 for the BP-117 for instance.
Typically no. You can see that more easily with the AT-6's. BP#'s and S/N's are all over the place.
