SHOULD the P39 have been able to handle the Zero? Was it training or performance?

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...322mi radius after reserves

Ok, even it we broke down and gave you the additional 92 miles, according to the chart it's still 53 miles less than the range of the Thunderbolt with drop tanks. So where is the upside to the super duper P-39N again, and why would one EVER select it over the other choices available at the time?
 
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Except the chart didn't say RESERVE, it said OVERLOAD.
 

Sure, but you have to base the time aloft figures on the fuel consumption of the fighter's speed.

It will be doing closer to 300mph than 230mph, so the consumption will be significantly higher, meaning shorter time aloft and shorter range when zig-zagging to keep with the bombers.
 
This point, like almost every other point has been answered by people with better knowledge than I on this thread, more than once. The range of a fighter is determined by how far a fighter can fly on internal fuel after dropping its external tanks and being in combat on WEP (or its equivalent) for 15 mins (or whatever the maximum is decided). Looking at the chart (previously posted) below it adds up to not very much and puts you in combat with more fuel than the 90 in most tests, don't worry though, it wlll soon be burned down.

 
The consumption at 25000' is 62gph at 2600rpm (max continuous). 210 net gallons divided by 62gph = 3.4hr, deduct 15min combat and 20 min landing reserve and you have 2.8 hrs of cruising. Period. Now how far have you gone? You have flown faster than the bombers but you are weaving to keep from passing them. So your forward progress is at their speed of 230mph. So 230mph x 2.8hrs = 644mi divided by 2 = 322mi radius TO ESCORT BOMBERS. On a ferry mission you would use your TAS.
 
322mi radius TO ESCORT BOMBERS

AND still less than what the Lightning and Thunderbolt was able to provide. Can we also add the Spitfire with a drop tank in for good measure? I read that there were 90 Imperial gallon auxiliary tanks available and actually used on occasion but not sure if they could be jettisoned or not. Anyone with more concise information on this please fill free to chime in....
 
No it doesn't, it just says how far you can go on your imaginary mission. from the moment you are on station escorting the bombers your consumption is in gallons per hour for the time you are in contact at the consumption rate at the height and speed you weave at, that is the speed given previously, and like every other post you ignore. The "range" is how far the bomber group is away from your base at the time you have to head home.
 
The P-39 obviously could carry a variable amount of fuel. Let's assume that if we're talking about escort duty then we would carry the maximum internal available. Pretend we got one of the kits and put the 33gal tanks back in the wings, or that we had one of the first ones with 120 gallons internal.

How could those experimental ADI jets have been used on combat planes? Did they have an inventory of these experimental parts already on hand while they were testing them? If the parts pass the test then they would go into series production before they could be installed in production planes. They tested these nozzles for a FULL YEAR with the test ending Feb '45. Wouldn't they need to finish the test before they settled on the final configuration for the parts? These parts increased Hellcat speed only 1.5mph. One mile per hour. Climb speed was increased by (per the report) 330fpm. Still this was 450fpm BELOW the P-39N at 20000'. The P-39 still outclimbs the Hellcat.

They were testing non-standard parts, this was not an official performance test. And you didn't even read the report you referenced, or you would have seen the recommendations at the end: 1. Install a carburetor air temp gauge, 2. Modify the derichment valve in the carb, and 3. A new type of water regulator be devised..... DEVISED? How long will that take?

So they had to make the new parts, install them in production planes, and in order for them to work they had to perform the 3 recommendations.

I'm being honest with you, I just don't see it. Just my opinion.
 
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No it doesn't, it just says how far you can go on your imaginary mission

And according to the Airacobra "Expert", WITH an imaginary never-employed 110 gallon drop tanks as well. And no matter what TAS the Airacobra is flying at (according to P-39 guy, 280 mph) it still will only be able to progress at the speed of the bombers (which will be at most 230 miles in distance) before being forced to turn for home. That sort of range was no real benefit to the bomber crews and that's why external tanks couldn't be added to the Thunderbolt quickly enough.
 
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The spitfires maximum internal fuel load reached 164 gallons, and it could carry a 174 gal, external tank all imperial measures.
That doesn't mean that it could carry all at the same time.
174=209 US
164=198 US.

Long range escort was a US requirement that appeared very quickly. The Spitfire could have performed a role similar to the P-47, but it was an allied joint effort. All the time US forces were working on the ground on their airplanes they required the same protection as any British forces, that was the job of the RAF and the Spitfire. I would be more than surprised if there was no contingency and involvement of the USAAF in case needed on a massed raid, I just havn't read anything. As previously posted the RAF did assist in withdrawal, from what I remember mainly picking up and escorting stragglers from central/northern France.

The UK always considered itself under threat, when operation Gisela was launched (at night) by the LW in March 1945, all the equipment was there and procedures in place.
 
In all these post a thing I did not understand: being P-39 such a formidable weapon, why Luftwaffe, with all the dozens of fancy aircraft designs put on the field, did not copy it by reverse engineering? Quick and simple.
Excellent speed, excellent rate of climb, excellent range, a 37 mm cannon that could destroy a Fortress with a single shot... with the bonus points of having Iron Crosses on the wings ad swastika on the fin. 8th AF would have been wiped out of the skies. And in these posts we have not spoken yet of the outstanding qualities of P-39 as a nightfighter, but soon we will do.
Much, much better of that lousy TA-152s and Me-262s...
Luftwaffe never did something similar, I can't understand why...
 

I have no proof that they were or were not used but the main reason I brought it up is to prove your bias and how quick you are to dismiss others. But your wild-ass claims are not to be challenged, even by those who have a far greater knowledge than you on the subject.

Do you have any proof that they were not used or is that only an assumption on your part? You also assume that only experimental jets were used. Show me the part number and specs of the actual jets fitted to a standard ADI system for the R-2800-10W and then maybe we can clear this up once and for all.

Just calm down and stop attacking everyone here who's trying to help you see the flaws in your theories. It will be an enriching experience for you and one you will eventually be thankful for, I promise.
 
If you read the pilots manual this is how they tell pilots to plan a mission. The consumption rate at 25000' is 62gph at max continuous power from the manual. It is constant throughout the mission, same power setting, same altitude. After reserves you have 2.8hrs to escort. You must use the bomber speed because although you fly faster than them, because of weaving you never pass them. If the escort speed is used, then 2.8hrs x 281mph = 787mi or a radius of 393mi, which is even farther (71mi) than using bomber speed.

Your consumption is constant at 62gph. The only variable is bomber speed or escort speed. Your forward progress with weaving is the bomber speed.
 
Would the Do335 do Elmas?

Do-335 was twin engine, and while not free from problems, was, at least, statically balanced once ammunition expended. We can not compare P-39 and Do-335, they were different airplanes.
Certainly Do-335 wasn't the best airplane to do a looping, but it wasn't designed with that in mind.
 
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If you knew anything about wartime operations you would know a pilot didn't plan a bomber escort mission, neither did his C/O neither did his group commander, it was an operation involving thousands of aircraft at the most and tens of thousands of people. The idea that you think a pilot just made a plan and waddled off on his own private mission shows how little an "expert" can know before calling himself an "expert".
 
I'm not dismissing anybody, my wild ass claims are straight from the official performance tests. There were other Hellcat tests in the Hellcat section that show basically the same climb rates as your experimental tests. So production Hellcats were climbing at your experimental rate. I just don't think those particular parts could have been used in that time frame.

I'm not attacking anyone, just discussing.
 
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