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...322mi radius after reserves
The fuel capacity was 120 gallons including the 16 gallon reserve. Wasn't actually additional fuel, the inside left fuel tank had two lines to the carburetor, one emptied the tank and the other was shorter forcing the pilot to switch to the "reserve" which was the 16 gallons left over in that tank. Kind of like the "standpipe" reserve the navy used. A standpipe in the bottom of the tank held fuel after the tank was emptied, forcing the pilot to switch tanks to the reserve in the standpipe. In addition to the fuel gauges this arrangement ran the main tank dry and forced the pilot to switch to reserve as a last measure to remind him that fuel was almost gone. Awful description by me, I'll try and find a drawing that explains it better.
I'm not doing a good job of explaining this, my bad. The bombers are going 230mph TAS. Escort is going faster. But escort has to stay with the slower bombers. Bombers fly straight, escort weaves (zig zag) above them. The whole parade is making forward progress at 230mph.
So you can't use the escort speed to figure range, you have to use the slower bomber speed.
If the mission was not escort, but say patrol or ferry then the TAS of your plane would be used to figure range.
That photo tells exactly what I was trying to say. And much better than I said it.This is actually quite familiar to anybody who has ridden motorcycles.
View attachment 487806
two pipes stick up into tank, you draw fuel from the taller leaving the difference between the taller pipe and the shorter one as the reserve.
This point, like almost every other point has been answered by people with better knowledge than I on this thread, more than once. The range of a fighter is determined by how far a fighter can fly on internal fuel after dropping its external tanks and being in combat on WEP (or its equivalent) for 15 mins (or whatever the maximum is decided). Looking at the chart (previously posted) below it adds up to not very much and puts you in combat with more fuel than the 90 in most tests, don't worry though, it wlll soon be burned down.Ok, even it we broke down and gave you the added 92 mile radius it's still 53 miles less than the range of the Thunderbolt with drop tanks. So where is the upside to the super duper P-39N again, and why would one select it over the other choices available at the time?
The consumption at 25000' is 62gph at 2600rpm (max continuous). 210 net gallons divided by 62gph = 3.4hr, deduct 15min combat and 20 min landing reserve and you have 2.8 hrs of cruising. Period. Now how far have you gone? You have flown faster than the bombers but you are weaving to keep from passing them. So your forward progress is at their speed of 230mph. So 230mph x 2.8hrs = 644mi divided by 2 = 322mi radius TO ESCORT BOMBERS. On a ferry mission you would use your TAS.Sure, but you have to base the time aloft figures on the fuel consumption of the fighter's speed.
It will be doing closer to 300mph than 230mph, so the consumption will be significantly higher, meaning shorter time aloft and shorter range when zig-zagging to keep with the bombers.
Yes but it is commonly referred to as the reserve tank in the manual, and it's know as the reserve tank on the fuel tank selector. We're talking about the same thing.Except the chart didn't say RESERVE, it said OVERLOAD.
322mi radius TO ESCORT BOMBERS
No it doesn't, it just says how far you can go on your imaginary mission. from the moment you are on station escorting the bombers your consumption is in gallons per hour for the time you are in contact at the consumption rate at the height and speed you weave at, that is the speed given previously, and like every other post you ignore. The "range" is how far the bomber group is away from your base at the time you have to head home.The consumption at 25000' is 62gph at 2600rpm (max continuous). 210 net gallons divided by 62gph = 3.4hr, deduct 15min combat and 20 min landing reserve and you have 2.8 hrs of cruising. Period. Now how far have you gone? You have flown faster than the bombers but you are weaving to keep from passing them. So your forward progress is at their speed of 230mph. So 230mph x 2.8hrs = 644mi divided by 2 = 322mi radius TO ESCORT BOMBERS. On a ferry mission you would use your TAS.
The P-39 obviously could carry a variable amount of fuel. Let's assume that if we're talking about escort duty then we would carry the maximum internal available. Pretend we got one of the kits and put the 33gal tanks back in the wings, or that we had one of the first ones with 120 gallons internal.I will agree to your unsubstantiated claim concerning the drop tank when you also agree that "at least some" carrier-based Hellcats were equipped with the ADI jets used during the combat power testing we discussed a few days back. And in reality only the first 166 P-39Ns had the larger internal fuel capacity. ALL P-39N-1s (which is what the test aircraft was) had 33 less gallons available. There's really no wiggle room there. Sorry.
No it doesn't, it just says how far you can go on your imaginary mission
The spitfires maximum internal fuel load reached 164 gallons, and it could carry a 174 gal, external tank all imperial measures.AND still less than what the Lightning and Thunderbolt was able to provide. Can we also add the Spitfire with a drop tank in for good measure? I read that there were 90 Imperial gallon auxiliary tanks available and actually used on occasion but not sure if they could be jettisoned or not. Anyone with more concise information on this please fill free to chime in....
How could those experimental ADI jets have been used on combat planes? Did they have an inventory of these experimental parts already on hand while they were testing them? If the parts pass the test then they would go into series production before they could be installed in production planes. They tested these nozzles for a FULL YEAR with the test ending Feb '45. Wouldn't they need to finish the test before they settled on the final configuration for the parts? These parts increased Hellcat speed only 1.5mph. One mile per hour. Climb speed was increased by (per the report) 330fpm. Still this was 450fpm BELOW
If you read the pilots manual this is how they tell pilots to plan a mission. The consumption rate at 25000' is 62gph at max continuous power from the manual. It is constant throughout the mission, same power setting, same altitude. After reserves you have 2.8hrs to escort. You must use the bomber speed because although you fly faster than them, because of weaving you never pass them. If the escort speed is used, then 2.8hrs x 281mph = 787mi or a radius of 393mi, which is even farther (71mi) than using bomber speed.No it doesn't, it just says how far you can go on your imaginary mission. from the moment you are on station escorting the bombers your consumption is in gallons per hour for the time you are in contact at the consumption rate at the height and speed you weave at, that is the speed given previously, and like every other post you ignore. The "range" is how far the bomber group is away from your base at the time you have to head home.
Would the Do335 do Elmas?
If you knew anything about wartime operations you would know a pilot didn't plan a bomber escort mission, neither did his C/O neither did his group commander, it was an operation involving thousands of aircraft at the most and tens of thousands of people. The idea that you think a pilot just made a plan and waddled off on his own private mission shows how little an "expert" can know before calling himself an "expert".If you read the pilots manual this is how they tell pilots to plan a mission. The consumption rate at 25000' is 62gph at max continuous power from the manual. It is constant throughout the mission, same power setting, same altitude. After reserves you have 2.8hrs to escort. You must use the bomber speed because although you fly faster than them, because of weaving you never pass them. If the escort speed is used, then 2.8hrs x 281mph = 787mi or a radius of 393mi, which is even farther (71mi) than using bomber speed.
Your consumption is constant at 62gph. The only variable is bomber speed or escort speed. Your forward progress with weaving is the bomber speed.
I'm not dismissing anybody, my wild ass claims are straight from the official performance tests. There were other Hellcat tests in the Hellcat section that show basically the same climb rates as your experimental tests. So production Hellcats were climbing at your experimental rate. I just don't think those particular parts could have been used in that time frame.I have no proof that they were or were not used but the main reason I brought it up is to prove your bias and how quick you are to dismiss others. But your wild-ass claims are not to be challenged, even by those who have a far greater knowledge than you on the subject.
Do you have any proof that they were not used or is that only an assumption on your part? You also assume that only experimental jets were used. Show me the part number and specs of the actual jets fitted to a standard ADI system for the R-2800-10W and then maybe we can clear this up once and for all.
Just calm down and stop attacking everyone here who's trying to help you see the flaws in your theories. It will be an enriching experience for you and one you will eventually be thankful for, I promise.