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A small point but for the few long range daylight heavy bomber missions the RAF did from May 1944, the favoured UK built escort aircraft was the Tempest. It had a decent range of 740 miles or 1,500 with drop tanks and did escort RAF bombers to the Rhur which is respectable.If you read the pilots manual this is how they tell pilots to plan a mission. The consumption rate at 25000' is 62gph at max continuous power from the manual. It is constant throughout the mission, same power setting, same altitude. After reserves you have 2.8hrs to escort. You must use the bomber speed because although you fly faster than them, because of weaving you never pass them. If the escort speed is used, then 2.8hrs x 281mph = 787mi or a radius of 393mi, which is even farther (71mi) than using bomber speed.
Your consumption is constant at 62gph. The only variable is bomber speed or escort speed. Your forward progress with weaving is the bomber speed.
P39, it is purely a box art issue, they look cute under attack, with their long range tanks strapped underneath.Your call P39N or a Tempest
Pretend we got one of the kits and put the 33gal tanks back in the wings, or that we had one of the first ones with 120 gallons internal.
I believe I read somewhere that sometime in 1941 Bell received a special delivery of solid and liquid anti-gravitum. It is little known in todays world but features a lot in WW2 aircraft discussions.Like everyone has been telling you up to this point, you can't have the extra fuel AND the figures quoted from the army tests as well. It's one or the other so please pick one and be done with it.
A small point but for the few long range daylight heavy bomber missions the RAF did from May 1944, the favoured UK built escort aircraft was the Tempest. It had a decent range of 740 miles or 1,500 with drop tanks and did escort RAF bombers to the Rhur which is respectable.
Note that the 1,500 range was with two x 45 gallon drop tanks. They rarely but sometimes did use 2 x 90 gallon drop tanks on long range missions but I don't know the range,
Your call P39N or a Tempest
I believe I read somewhere that sometime in 1941 Bell received a special delivery of solid and liquid anti-gravitum. It is little known in todays world but features a lot in WW2 aircraft discussions.
All very well but that is just an historical document on the subject, we prefer made up fantasy from self appointed experts on this particular thread. I am of course joking, that is a great document, sorting out the needs of the many for planning from the needs of the individual to get home must have been a nightmare.Gentlemen,
Thought I would add more numbers to the mix. Please find a copy of the Tactical Planning chart, which I believe would be used by USAAF planners when planning a mission. Please note that the date is June 1945. Weights include "Basic" + crew, oil, full ammunition, and fuel, Range and endurance includes
1 Allowances for warm up, taxi, run up, take off and landing (Equal to 10 minutes at max cont at SL)
2 Allowance for fuel consumed in climb. Distance and time are included in range and endurance.
3 Allowance for carrying bomb or drop tank ENTIRE flight.
Allowance for 10% net ideal range and endurance for differences in aircraft, pilot techniques etc.View attachment 487875
Note that flying at max cruise (max continuous operating at lean mixture setting) at 25000 feet is above the ceiling of the aircraft.
It does not appear that the ranges and endurance given include any allowances for combat.
My 2 cents.
Eagledad
Note that flying at max cruise (max continuous operating at lean mixture setting) at 25000 feet is above the ceiling of the aircraft.
It does not appear that the ranges and endurance given include any allowances for combat.
Long range escort was a US requirement that appeared very quickly. The Spitfire could have performed a role similar to the P-47, but it was an allied joint effort.
It also doesn't mention that which shouldn't be mentioned, the FW190.My criticism of this test is that it is against the 109E, which to be fair to the British, was the only airworthy 109 they had at the time and any test was more informative than no test.
But for telling how the P-39 would have fared against the 109F let alone the G it leaves a lot to be desired.
According to William Green (correction welcome) a 109F-0 with e DB601N engine was compared to a 109E/N also with a DB601N engine.
a 360 degree turn could be made in 18 seconds compared to the 109Es 25 seconds at 3280ft. Starting at that altitude 2900ft could be gained in a "combat turn"(whatever that is) compared to only 1970ft by the "E". Initial climb rate was 3,730fpm compared to 3420fpm and 16,400ft could be reached in 5.2 minuted compared to 6.1 min.
Starting in early 1942 (?) the 109F got the DB601E engine which made 30 more PS/HP 1600ft higher than the DB601N.
Nope. The P-39N was out of deployment when 110 gallon tanks were a.) manufactured in-theater by Brits/Aussies and b.) the P-47 had priority because they WERE used for high altitude escort.Can we agree that at least some of the Ns had 120 gals internal and carried a 110gal drop tank? This is absolutely true.
You have figured out how to figure range/endurance from the pilots manual. 120 gal + 110 gal drop = 230gal less 20 gal reserve = 210 gal divided by 62gph = 3.4 hrs less 15 min combat and 20 min reserve for landing = 2.8 hr x 230mph = 644mi divided by 2 = 322mi radius after reserves. The 230mph is the bomber speed TAS and you are weaving to stay at their speed. Drop tank of up to 175 gal was available for the P-39.
Ive just read that there were 4 "missions" two found no targets and the other shot up a trawler, the most involved were three aircraft one time. Initially at least they were taken off operations because of compass problems.Getting back to the British and why they didn't want the P-39, the first (and last) operational flight of the P-39/Aircobra I in British service was Oct 9th 1941.
The Germans had introduced the 109F back in March/April on the Channel coast and the first Fw190s were being service tested in July. The British had a pretty good Idea of how these aircraft stacked up against the Spit V and a good idea how the Spit V stacked up against the Aircobra I. They knew the Aircobra I (P-39D) wasn't going to work against either of them in the style of fighting (tactics) the British were using at the time.