Skua: 100lb or 500lb bombs hit Konigsberg?

elbmc1969 · Jul 29, 2020

Gordon Williamson's German Light Cruisers: 1939-45 states that it was sunk by 100lb. bombs dropped by the FAA Skuas. A variety of other sources say that the Skuas carried 500lb. bombs, which was their maximum load. Various sources state that the Skuas were operating near the limit of their range, so carrying a reduced load of 100lb. AP instead of 500lb. SAP would make sense. On the gripping hand, five 100lb. bombs destroying a light cruiser at dockside seems moderately lucky.

Does anyone know of decisive evidence on this? Carrier or squadron logs, official reports, that sort of thing?

Thanks!

buffnut453 · Jul 29, 2020

This page has the most online info I've seen. Specific details from official sources are rather sketchy because, IIRC, the squadron records for all the Skua units involved in the raid were lost later in the war.

Sinking of the Konigsberg

Archaeological evidence on the webpage suggests the Skuas carried 500lb SAP bombs.

Hope the above helps.

Graeme · Jul 29, 2020

According to Ian Cameron (Wings of the Morning) they used 500 lb S.A.P. bombs.

"No bomb landed farther away from her than fifty yards, and the average mean error in bombing was well under twenty yards".

elbmc1969 · Jul 29, 2020

buffnut453 said:
This page has the most online info I've seen.
Sinking of the Konigsberg
Archaeological evidence on the webpage suggests the Skuas carried 500lb SAP bombs.

I'd seen versions of that page, but I'd missed the section about the unexploded bomb. The newspaper article and video are behind a paywall, so I'm not clear on why they're sure the bomb was from the Skuas and not the Wellingtons. Were the Wellingtons using HE bombs instead of SAP? I didn't think that they had AP available.

Graeme said:
According to Ian Cameron (Wings of the Morning) they used 500 lb S.A.P. bombs.

Thanks for that reference. The Sinking of the Konigsberg web page states that German sources say there were 5 or 6 hits, as opposed to the 3 shown in the diagram. Of course, I'm not sure what "fractional hits" are and they might be the bombs that the Germans thought careened off the mole and through the side of the ship.

Given the hit locations, I can see how even small bombs could have caused fires that got out of control, especially with the Konigsberg's fire fighting equipment previously damaged.

pbehn · Jul 29, 2020

Some interesting stuff in there.
The near misses also damaged the ship and it was already damaged by the shore battery that affected damage control.

elbmc1969 · Jul 29, 2020

Graeme said:
According to Ian Cameron (Wings of the Morning) they used 500 lb S.A.P. bombs.

"No bomb landed farther away from her than fifty yards, and the average mean error in bombing was well under twenty yards".

Do you happen to have the page reference for that?

RCAFson · Jul 30, 2020

elbmc1969 said:
Gordon Williamson's German Light Cruisers: 1939-45 states that it was sunk by 100lb. bombs dropped by the FAA Skuas. A variety of other sources say that the Skuas carried 500lb. bombs, which was their maximum load. Various sources state that the Skuas were operating near the limit of their range, so carrying a reduced load of 100lb. AP instead of 500lb. SAP would make sense. On the gripping hand, five 100lb. bombs destroying a light cruiser at dockside seems moderately lucky.

Does anyone know of decisive evidence on this? Carrier or squadron logs, official reports, that sort of thing?

Thanks!

That must have been a misprint. This is from the official squadron reports:

"...of the second group, one aircraft lost touch on the passage out and
carried out the operation alone, attacking about ten minutes after the
remainder.
BERGEN was approached from the South East, and one KOLN class
cruiser was sighted alongside SKOLTE GRUND MOLE, Starboard side
to, bows East.
A t 0720, Section formed line astern, and carried out dive bombing
attacks, each aircraft dropping one 500 lb. S.A.P. bomb. The attack was
carried out down sun, and aircraft made their get-away to the Westward,
reforming when clear of the coast.
The attack may be summarised as follows:–
Average height of bomb release was 2000 feet at an angle of dive of
60° degrees..." (Jones, The FAA in WWII, V.1)

elbmc1969 · Jul 30, 2020

RCAFson said:
That must have been a misprint. This is from the official squadron reports:

"...of the second group, one aircraft lost touch on the passage out and
carried out the operation alone, attacking about ten minutes after the
remainder.
BERGEN was approached from the South East, and one KOLN class
cruiser was sighted alongside SKOLTE GRUND MOLE, Starboard side
to, bows East.
A t 0720, Section formed line astern, and carried out dive bombing
attacks, each aircraft dropping one 500 lb. S.A.P. bomb. The attack was
carried out down sun, and aircraft made their get-away to the Westward,
reforming when clear of the coast.
The attack may be summarised as follows:–
Average height of bomb release was 2000 feet at an angle of dive of
60° degrees..." (Jones, The FAA in WWII, V.1)

Thanks so much for that! Do you have the page number?

The diagram on the Sinking of the Konigsberg web page shows a dive angle of 70 degrees. I wonder if that's an error, or if it's 70 degrees nose down with some lift from the wing causing the vector to be at 60 degrees. Not sure that the Skua could dive truly unloaded.

It also shows release altitudes as 1,500 to 3,000, which fits with an average of 2,000.

Thanks again!

RCAFson · Jul 30, 2020

elbmc1969 said:
Thanks so much for that! Do you have the page number?

The diagram on the Sinking of the Konigsberg web page shows a dive angle of 70 degrees. I wonder if that's an error, or if it's 70 degrees nose down with some lift from the wing causing the vector to be at 60 degrees. Not sure that the Skua could dive truly unloaded.

It also shows release altitudes as 1,500 to 3,000, which fits with an average of 2,000.

Thanks again!

P.95.

However, the dive angle mentioned only pertains to that section, AFAIK.

fastmongrel · Jul 30, 2020

There were no Armour Piercing 100 pound bombs in service. There was a 112 pound High Explosive General Purpose bomb and a 100 pound practice bomb which might have given the Konigsbergs paint a nasty scratch.

The Skua carried the 500 pound Semi Armour Piercing Bomb during the Bergen raid which was designed to attack aircraft carriers. There are claims that 500 pound SAPiercing bombs were converted to Armour Piercing bombs for attacking armoured targets like heavy cruisers by replacing the nose fuse with a hardened steel plug and fitting a base fuse but there are no official records.

Capt. Vick · Jul 30, 2020

Well, maybe that settles it. If true. You can't drop something that doesn't exist.

Shortround6 · Jul 30, 2020

There was also the famous 100lb anti-sub bomb but since that couldn't sink a 500 ton submarine the chances of it sinking a 6,000 ton cruiser are rather small.

fastmongrel · Jul 31, 2020

Shortround6 said:
There was also the famous 100lb anti-sub bomb but since that couldn't sink a 500 ton submarine the chances of it sinking a 6,000 ton cruiser are rather small.

It was quite effective at sinking the aircraft that dropped it.

Admiral Beez · Aug 2, 2020

Could the Skua carry a heavier bomb load from land, for example a 500 lb. centreline bomb and a 250 lb. under each wing?

stona · Aug 2, 2020

Shortround6 said:
There was also the famous 100lb anti-sub bomb but since that couldn't sink a 500 ton submarine the chances of it sinking a 6,000 ton cruiser are rather small.

The much maligned AS bombs did not entirely lack success. Two 100lb AS bombs achieved the first Fleet Air Arm sinking of the war on 13 April 1940 when a Swordfish floatplane, flown from HMS Warspite found the brand new 1,100 ton Type IXB U-64 in Herjangs Fjord. Two bombs were dropped from 200 feet, one detonated alongside the submarine, the other near the conning tower. The U-boat sank with the loss of twelve of her crew.

Greyman · Aug 2, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
Could the Skua carry a heavier bomb load from land, for example a 500 lb. centreline bomb and a 250 lb. under each wing?

Just a Light Series Carrier under each wing with (in the Skua's case) 4x practice bombs each.

elbmc1969 · Aug 2, 2020

Greyman said:
Just a Light Series Carrier under each wing with (in the Skua's case) 4x practice bombs each.

The limiting factor was the max weight that the center station could support and the strength of the bomb crutch. In theory, they could have done something with the wing stations, but the additional drag would have reduced range enough to notice.

Graeme · Aug 2, 2020

elbmc1969 said:
Do you happen to have the page reference for that?

Pages 27-29. Cameron flew Swordfish and Sea Otters during the war.

Mad Dog · Aug 2, 2020

elbmc1969 said:
Gordon Williamson's German Light Cruisers: 1939-45 states that it was sunk by 100lb. bombs dropped by the FAA Skuas. A variety of other sources say that the Skuas carried 500lb. bombs, which was their maximum load. Various sources state that the Skuas were operating near the limit of their range, so carrying a reduced load of 100lb. AP instead of 500lb. SAP would make sense. On the gripping hand, five 100lb. bombs destroying a light cruiser at dockside seems moderately lucky.

Does anyone know of decisive evidence on this? Carrier or squadron logs, official reports, that sort of thing?

Thanks!

I don't remember ever reading of a 100Lb AP bomb used by the RN in 1940. There was an inter-war 120Lb bomb but that was a general purpose HE unit, and not used by Skuas. As far as I can recall, the Skua either carried the 500Lb SAP bomb on the belly crutch or the 25Lb Cooper bombs on the wing racks.

GregP · Aug 3, 2020

It was attacked by engineer-class moties, elbmc1969 ...

Skua: 100lb or 500lb bombs hit Konigsberg?

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