Some thoughts from reading No Right to Win

[R Leonard]

Well, there you go. He landed aboard Yorktown.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

Well, there you go. He landed aboard Yorktown.

That's why I post this thread, two heads are better than one LOL

 

[Skywalker Jin]

And my father was in one of those F4Fs waiting a turn to land and I've had it described to me as I wrote, especially the potential problem for glare from spots or floods.

Mr Leonard, another topic I want to discuss with you is that the key factor which made Peter know "the strange plane" wasn't US.
He said that "I found myself watching our fighters by the blue of their exhausts when some additional exhausts of a slightly different color and shape appeared in our landing circle."
But from chemistry, all flames resulting from complete combustion are blue.
Really cannot get his point.

 

[R Leonard]

That's why I post this thread, two heads are better than one LOL

Not only did he land on Yorktown, but he was wheels & hook down when waved off when the Japanese appeared. Cranked all up for the evening adventure and when the excitement was over, around and readied to land. LSO gave him the come on and cut and down he came. Nice landing, but neither the LSO, the spotter, nor he, noticed that he had not put his hook back down and he ended up in the barrier. No great damage, the mechs replaced the engine overnight just to be sure and the plane was available the next day.

Watching exhaust flames . . . beware of the "golly-gee-whiz-breathless-excitement-of-it-all".

 

[Skywalker Jin]

Not only did he land on Yorktown, but he was wheels & hook down when waved off when the Japanese appeared. Cranked all up for the evening adventure and when the excitement was over, around and readied to land. LSO gave him the come on and cut and down he came. Nice landing, but neither the LSO, the spotter, nor he, noticed that he had not put his hook back down and he ended up in the barrier. No great damage, the mechs replaced the engine overnight just to be sure and the plane was available the next day.

Watching exhaust flames . . . beware of the "golly-gee-whiz-breathless-excitement-of-it-all".

From the first glance I felt strange to judge a plane's type by its exhaust flames. It was fine that he mentioned other evidences that proved the plane's nationality:
The signal that plane sent couldn't be recognized by Yorktown's signal man.
He said: "I distinctly recall shouted comments from the signal bridge: 'we can't make it out!'"

 

[R Leonard]

From the first glance I felt strange to judge a plane's type by its exhaust flames. It was fine that he mentioned other evidences that proved the plane's nationality:
The signal that plane sent couldn't be recognized by Yorktown's signal man.
He said: "I distinctly recall shouted comments from the signal bridge: 'we can't make it out!'"

And there are those who report that as the Japanese planes were circling and apparently preparing to land, there was an announcement on the turnout system to "Stand by to repel boarders!"
Grabbing a few tomes off the shelf, without much effort there are plenty of citations of this event in various historic recountings . . .

• Robert Cressman (of the US Naval Historic Command) in his That Gallant Ship - USS Yorktown (CV-5), pages 95 and 96
• Samuel E Morison in History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, Vol 4, pages 43 and 44
• Pat Frank and Joseph Harrington in Rendezvous at Midway - USS Yorktown and the Japanese Carrier Fleet, pages 204 and 205
• Coral Sea Commemorative Association of Australia, Audrey F Wicks (Ed.) in Coral Sea Log, page 54
• Jeff Nesmith in No Higher Honor - The USS Yorktown at the Battle of Midway, page 109
• Stuart D Ludlum in They Turned the War Around at Coral Sea and Midway, pages 74 through 76 (Ludlum's sources identify the voice on the MC1 "Stand by to repel boarders" call as that of CDR Robert Armstrong, CV-5 Assistant Air Officer
• John Lundstrom in The First Team - Pacific Naval Air Combat from Pearl Harbor to Midway, pages 214 through 217 (Lundstrom opines, in the cold light of day, that the Japanese interlopers ". . . were puzzled and descended to check their navigation" and probably were not actually trying to land . . . probably true.

There are no doubt other works on my shelves which might mention the confusion in the darkness. Extracts from reports:

Yorktown:

Yorktown more

And Lexington:

 

[Skywalker Jin]

And there are those who report that as the Japanese planes were circling and apparently preparing to land, there was an announcement on the turnout system to "Stand by to repel boarders!"
Grabbing a few tomes off the shelf, without much effort there are plenty of citations of this event in various historic recountings . . .

• Robert Cressman (of the US Naval Historic Command) in his That Gallant Ship - USS Yorktown (CV-5), pages 95 and 96
• Samuel E Morison in History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, Vol 4, pages 43 and 44
• Pat Frank and Joseph Harrington in Rendezvous at Midway - USS Yorktown and the Japanese Carrier Fleet, pages 204 and 205
• Coral Sea Commemorative Association of Australia, Audrey F Wicks (Ed.) in Coral Sea Log, page 54
• Jeff Nesmith in No Higher Honor - The USS Yorktown at the Battle of Midway, page 109
• Stuart D Ludlum in They Turned the War Around at Coral Sea and Midway, pages 74 through 76 (Ludlum's sources identify the voice on the MC1 "Stand by to repel boarders" call as that of CDR Robert Armstrong, CV-5 Assistant Air Officer
• John Lundstrom in The First Team - Pacific Naval Air Combat from Pearl Harbor to Midway, pages 214 through 217 (Lundstrom opines, in the cold light of day, that the Japanese interlopers ". . . were puzzled and descended to check their navigation" and probably were not actually trying to land . . . probably true.

There are no doubt other works on my shelves which might mention the confusion in the darkness. Extracts from reports:

Yorktown:
View attachment 870682

Yorktown more
View attachment 870683

And Lexington:
View attachment 870684

Thank you, these are excellent supplementary materials
Speaking of the aftermath, japs drew huge red circle on their carriers(which made Dick Best and Dusty Kleiss hit them more accurately)
What about the USN? How did this incident influence the Friend-or-Foe system,or probably insignia on aircrafts?
As we all know, the new type of national insignia deleted red dot at the center of white star.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

Not only did he land on Yorktown, but he was wheels & hook down when waved off when the Japanese appeared. Cranked all up for the evening adventure and when the excitement was over, around and readied to land. LSO gave him the come on and cut and down he came. Nice landing, but neither the LSO, the spotter, nor he, noticed that he had not put his hook back down and he ended up in the barrier. No great damage, the mechs replaced the engine overnight just to be sure and the plane was available the next day.

Watching exhaust flames . . . beware of the "golly-gee-whiz-breathless-excitement-of-it-all".

BTW, it seems that your father's F4F-3 was rarely mentioned in the model market. Do you have this cat's BuNo and fuselage No? Thank you.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

The only problem remained to be discussed was Enterprise's "22 battle stars",which was 2 more than the well-known 20.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

Not only did he land on Yorktown, but he was wheels & hook down when waved off when the Japanese appeared. Cranked all up for the evening adventure and when the excitement was over, around and readied to land. LSO gave him the come on and cut and down he came. Nice landing, but neither the LSO, the spotter, nor he, noticed that he had not put his hook back down and he ended up in the barrier. No great damage, the mechs replaced the engine overnight just to be sure and the plane was available the next day.

Watching exhaust flames . . . beware of the "golly-gee-whiz-breathless-excitement-of-it-all".

Another VF-42 pilot was not so fortunate. Ens. William W. Barnes, Jr.,flying as Leonard's wingman, had his F4F riddled by .50-caliber bullets that pierced the cockpit and severed an oil line. Hot lubricant drenched the unhappy Barnes, and a slug lodged in his parachute back. Despite the damage to his fighter, he later landed on board safely, but the Grumman was in no shape to fly the next day.

As it was described in The First Team - Pacific Naval Air Combat from Pearl Harbor to Midway, your father was so lucky.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The only problem remained to be discussed was Enterprise's "22 battle stars",which was 2 more than the well-known 20.

What's to discuss? They got it wrong. Per the NHHC:

Enterprise was the most decorated warship of World War II earning 20 Battle Stars—three more than any other ship. In addition, Enterprise was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation and the Navy Unit Commendation becoming the only carrier awarded both the PUC and NUC for service in WWII. On Nov. 23, 1945, Enterprise was awarded the British Admiralty Pennant making her the only ship awarded the prestigious decoration outside the Royal Navy.

https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/ships/aircraft-carriers/big-e.html

 

[Skywalker Jin]

What's to discuss? They got it wrong. Per the NHHC:

Enterprise was the most decorated warship of World War II earning 20 Battle Stars—three more than any other ship. In addition, Enterprise was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation and the Navy Unit Commendation becoming the only carrier awarded both the PUC and NUC for service in WWII. On Nov. 23, 1945, Enterprise was awarded the British Admiralty Pennant making her the only ship awarded the prestigious decoration outside the Royal Navy.

https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/ships/aircraft-carriers/big-e.html

According to this book Page 5
The USS Enterprise (CV-6) arrived in port one day in 1945, and Vickrey became acquainted with several of the ship's company while tending to them in the naval station dispensary. The Enterprise men were proud of their ship's twenty-two battle stars, and none of those stars shown more brightly in their minds than the one earned at the Battle of Midway.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

According to this book Page 5
The USS Enterprise (CV-6) arrived in port one day in 1943, and Vickrey became acquainted with several of the ship's company while tending to them in the naval station dispensary. The Enterprise men were proud of their ship's twenty-two battle stars, and none of those stars shown more brightly in their minds than the one earned at the Battle of Midway.

So? They made an error, either of recollection or typographical. I think the Naval Heritage and Historical Command, whence I retrieved the quote above, is far the more reliable source.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

So? They made an error, either of recollection or typographical. I think the Naval Heritage and Historical Command, whence I retrieved the quote above, is far the more reliable source.

Yep this book was great while personal memory always needed more document to prove.
Anyway a little bit sad about my loved Enterprise had only 20 battle stars instead of 22

 

[Greg Boeser]

Yep this book was great while personal memory always needed more document to prove.
Anyway a little bit sad about my loved Enterprise had only 20 battle stars instead of 22

Your suspicions should have been alerted when the book refers to this anecdote taking place in 1943.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yep this book was great while personal memory always needed more document to prove.
Anyway a little bit sad about my loved Enterprise had only 20 battle stars instead of 22

As much as I love the Big E, her exploits were such that the battle-stars are just "fruit salad", as we call decorations in the service. Recognition is nice. Enterprise's crew didn't do what they did for decorations, though. They did what they did for love of our country. Their deeds are timeless and no amount of decorations can put a brighter shine on them.

 

[special ed]

Indeed! One day in 1965 Sgt. Roselle called me to his office in the hangar and gave me a paper and a ribbon. My comment, "What's this for? I haven't done anything worth an award?"
He explained the good conduct medal is for, 3 years I think he said, without an article 15. I told him I just did what I was supposed to do. He said, "That's why the Air Force is giving it to you". At the next Class A inspection, he told me that the ribbon was part of my uniform and I had better wear it at the next inspection.
It WAS awfully naked by itself.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Indeed! One day in 1965 Sgt. Roselle called me to his office in the hangar and gave me a paper and a ribbon. My comment, "What's this for? I haven't done anything worth an award?"
He explained the good conduct medal is for, 3 years I think he said, without an article 15. I told him I just did what I was supposed to do. He said, "That's why the Air Force is giving it to you". At the next Class A inspection, he told me that the ribbon was part of my uniform and I had better wear it at the next inspection.
It WAS awfully naked by itself.

Right -- they gave us ribbons for graduating BMTS. BMTS!

I told my supervisor at my first duty station, "Well, duh, if I washed out of basic I wouldn't earn a ribbon -- the fact I am in uniform attests to the fact I graduated" whereupon he replied, "Welcome to the Air Force and its logic, Gossett."

Fortunately I shot expert on the range and so my rainbow grad ribbon wasn't so alone. Coupled with my two stripes from pre-enlistment college, I sorta looked like I knew what the Hell I was doing, lol.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

Your suspicions should have been alerted when the book refers to this anecdote taking place in 1943.

Thanks,I checked the book and it was 1945.

 

[Skywalker Jin]

So? They made an error, either of recollection or typographical. I think the Naval Heritage and Historical Command, whence I retrieved the quote above, is far the more reliable source.

In fact I emailed them(midway42.org's official mailbox)3 times and got no reply but they replied me in 12 hours a month ago.
I wonder what had happened.