Soviet Lend Lease

[Kevin J]

Stalin, in his infinite wisdom, provides lend lease aid to the Axis, saying, you can pay it back later with whatever you can steal from your enemies. What should he supply to them?

 

[pinehilljoe]

Anything that moved on wheels or tracks. The German Army was always short on transport and tanks. Also the 76.2mm AntiTank gun.

The boring stuff, raw materials; iron, coal, oil, rubber, food. The final train of raw materials going to the Reich from the Soviet Union rolled across the boarder the night before the War started. The USSR and Germany were big pre war trading partners. Remember Germany even traded the incomplete cruiser Lutzow for raw materials and hard currency.

 

[Kevin J]

Anything that moved on wheels or tracks. The German Army was always short on transport and tanks. Also the 76.2mm AntiTank gun.

The boring stuff, raw materials; iron, coal, oil, rubber, food. The final train of raw materials going to the Reich from the Soviet Union rolled across the boarder the night before the War started. The USSR and Germany were big pre war trading partners. Remember Germany even traded the incomplete cruiser Lutzow for raw materials and hard currency.

Good, the other Axis partners are Italy, Japan, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary by November 1940. It just struck me that if Stalin had been really smart he would have bank rolled the Axis in their fight against the British Empire and their American financial backers. A plane like the Pe-2 could have been useful to the Italians in North Africa, perhaps the I-153 for the Luftwaffe there for nighttime close support.

 

[Shortround6]

Stalin, in his infinite wisdom, provides lend lease aid to the Axis, saying, you can pay it back later with whatever you can steal from your enemies. What should he supply to them?

What year/s?
in 1939/40 the Soviet union was hardly a manufacturing powerhouse.
as Pinehilljoe said, the boring raw materials.

There was no 76.2mm AntiTank gun. there was a 76.2mm field gun (actually several models) with better than average velocity (2230fps?) but it weighed about 1 1/2 tons in firing position.
Russians can not supply their own army with trucks. Russian 1939/40 tanks are a rather mixed bag and Uncle Joe was not about to give the newest and best to the Germans (or anybody else).

 

[swampyankee]

Once Stalin and Hitler finished their mutual obsession of the destruction of Poland, Hitler, at least, would turn to his other obsessions, murdering Jews and enslaving Slavs. Stalin would probably restart the traditional Russian quest for warm water ports and Constantinople/Istanbul.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"... in 1939/40 the Soviet union was hardly a manufacturing powerhouse."
By then Stalin's industrialized developments were working ... by 1940 the Soviet military had the most tanks and the most AC in the world ... they may not have been war-winners but that does not detract from the fact that Russian industry delivered them.
In 1939 Zhukov fought the Japanese at Nomonhan and his tanks and planes were effective and numerous ... his lines of communication were stretched from the rail-head but there were plenty of trucks to move fuel and supplies. Russian agriculture had perhaps as many tracked tractors as America. What made LL imperative for survival was that most of the planes, tanks, trucks and tractors were lost in the first months of fighting through appalling generalmanship and the utter intensity of German combined arms. Soviet weapons design and production was by no means 'retarded'

 

[Kevin J]

"... in 1939/40 the Soviet union was hardly a manufacturing powerhouse."
By then Stalin's industrialized developments were working ... by 1940 the Soviet military had the most tanks and the most AC in the world ... they may not have been war-winners but that does not detract from the fact that Russian industry delivered them.
In 1939 Zhukov fought the Japanese at Nomonhan and his tanks and planes were effective and numerous ... his lines of communication were stretched from the rail-head but there were plenty of trucks to move fuel and supplies. Russian agriculture had perhaps as many tracked tractors as America. What made LL imperative for survival was that most of the planes, tanks, trucks and tractors were lost in the first months of fighting through appalling generalmanship and the utter intensity of German combined arms. Soviet weapons design and production was by no means 'retarded'

You should look up Britain's anti invasion plans and realise that we made the same wrong assumptions as the USSR.

 

[Kevin J]

What year/s?
in 1939/40 the Soviet union was hardly a manufacturing powerhouse.
as Pinehilljoe said, the boring raw materials.

There was no 76.2mm AntiTank gun. there was a 76.2mm field gun (actually several models) with better than average velocity (2230fps?) but it weighed about 1 1/2 tons in firing position.
Russians can not supply their own army with trucks. Russian 1939/40 tanks are a rather mixed bag and Uncle Joe was not about to give the newest and best to the Germans (or anybody else).

1940/41. There was more to the AXIS than just Germany.

 

[michaelmaltby]

".... the same wrong assumptions as the USSR."

Pray tell, what assumption are you alluding to?

The best 'haul' the Germans made from their axis partners + conquests was getting the SKODA works in Czechoslovakia, IMO.
But, overall, Germany was the 'armory' of the Axis ... real innovation and systems upgrading and evolution.

 

[pinehilljoe]

Good, the other Axis partners are Italy, Japan, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary by November 1940. It just struck me that if Stalin had been really smart he would have bank rolled the Axis in their fight against the British Empire and their American financial backers. A plane like the Pe-2 could have been useful to the Italians in North Africa, perhaps the I-153 for the Luftwaffe there for nighttime close support.

Its hard see this. Hitler's war was ideological, not even political. If you read Mein Kampf, war with the Soviets was inevitable, it was just a matter of when.

 

[Kevin J]

Its hard see this. Hitler's war was ideological, not even political. If you read Mein Kampf, was with the Soviets was inevitable, it was just a matter of when.

I agree, he was an idiot.

 

[Dimlee]

Russians can not supply their own army with trucks.

I assume that Kevin J means that Axis do the fight and USSR remains "neutral"?
Soviets could not supply own army with trucks during the big war. Otherwise, there should be enough production capacity for exports. The problem will be with the quality of engines and with the deficit of tyres (since no Allied imports of rubber).
I'd suggest also tractors for artillery, light tanks (for Italy?).
Aviation...PS-84 to complement Ju 52? Again, I'm not sure about engines.
And Caspian oil and a lot of foodstuffs.

 

[fastmongrel]

And when the Soviets have sent all their spare raw materials and weapons then Hitler invades. Stalin might have been a phycopathic, paranoid, mass murdering nutjob but he trusted anyone who wasnt himself about as far as he could throw them.

 

[Kevin J]

And when the Soviets have sent all their spare raw materials and weapons then Hitler invades. Stalin might have been a phycopathic, paranoid, mass murdering nutjob but he trusted anyone who wasnt himself about as far as he could throw them.

Plus an agree icon.