Spitfire Vs FW-190

[MIflyer]

There has been some mention of how the Spitfire was modified to respond to the threat posed by the appearance of the FW-190 in the summer of 1941. Dr Alfred Price probably has written more about the Spitfire than anyone else and here is what he has in his book "Spitfire Into Battle." By the way, I do not find that to be a very good name for that book, and thus it may be overlooked by most. A better name would be "Interesting and Neat Stuff About The Spitfire That Does Not Appear Anywhere Else."

 

[SaparotRob]

I believe your title is better.

 

[MIflyer]

By the way, Alan Deere, mentioned in the article, was involved in an incident where his Spitfire Mk 1 had a mid-air with a BF-109 on the first case in which an RAF unit decided to emulate the Luftwaffe and fly the Finger Four formation. This incident was the subject of a Revell Box top.

 

[pbehn]

By the way, Alan Deere, mentioned in the article, was involved in an incident where his Spitfire Mk 1 had a mid-air with a BF-109 on the first case in which an RAF unit decided to emulate the Luftwaffe and fly the Finger Four formation. This incident was the subject of a Revell Box top.

View attachment 595145

Al Deere led a charmed life.

 

[Vincenzo]

The Fw 190 A-5/A-6 handbuch report a speed of 660 km/h at 6,300 meters and a speed of 560 km/h at 0 with Start- und Notleistung power

 

[MIflyer]

Indeed, Alan C. Deere's book is entitled "Nine Lives." It is not nearly as well known as books such as "Wing Leader" by Johnnie Johnson or "Reach for the Sky" by Douglas Bader, but it deserves to be. He was in with that bunch and and had at least as many adventures if not more. That was not the only mid-air he had, either.

Funny thing, I was reading that book and got to the part about the mid-air. It sounded familiar and I went looking for where I had put that model kit. It is the old 1/32 Revell Mk I but has some parts added so you could make a Mk V, like cannon barrels and wing bulges

 

[rochie]

Indeed, Alan C. Deere's book is entitled "Nine Lives." It is not nearly as well known as books such as "Wing Leader" by Johnnie Johnson or "Reach for the Sky" by Douglas Bader, but it deserves to be. He was in with that bunch and and had at least as many adventures if not more. That was not the only mid-air he had, either.

Funny thing, I was reading that book and got to the part about the mid-air. It sounded familiar and I went looking for where I had put that model kt. It is the old 1/32 Revell Mk I but has some parts added so you could make a Mk V, like cannon barrels and wing bulges

A great book, favourite bit is when he and his wingman are fighting Bf109's and his wingman calls for help.
"Hang on while i kill this bastard" he says !

 

[MIflyer]

Stanford Tuck's book is great, too. He was shot down, what well over a dozen times? And ended up in a German POW camp.

He went after a German bomber ducking in and out of the clouds so that it jettisoned its bomb load and that killed his brother in law at an Army camp.
He took things personally. The part that struck me is when he and his new girlfriend/future wife were driving along one evening and a German bomber came over low, and turned right at a fork in the road. One of his squadron flew over and turned left at the fork. He stopped the car and ran down the road yelling for the Hurricane to go the other way. He apologized to the lady but she replied, "No, this is interesting! Let's sit here and see if any more aerobuzzers come by."

 

[Denniss]

An A-3 in 1942 did not have maximum engine power enabled due to engine issues

 

[Vincenzo]

An A-3 in 1942 did not have maximum engine power enabled due to engine issues

what issues?

however the A-3 in '42 not must be compared with the LF&HF IX, they were not available

 

[Deleted member 68059]

what issues?

however the A-3 in '42 not must be compared with the LF&HF IX, they were not available

Most would have been officially or unoficially de-rated to 1.32 ata maximum boost. However the engines were in such a
poor state that the real service 190`s were probably even not making the official 1.32 performance figures, as is made
clear by tests of Armin Fabers captured 190, this (like the ones in Germany) had many issues when the RAF
were trying to test it. It is certain that had these issues not occured, that the Fw190 "menace" would have
been very notably worse, and it was serious enough as it was.

 

[Vincenzo]

Most would have been officially or unoficially de-rated to 1.32 ata maximum boost. However the engines were in such a
poor state that the real service 190`s were probably even not making the official 1.32 performance figures, as is made
clear by tests of Armin Fabers captured 190, this (like the ones in Germany) had many issues when the RAF
were trying to test it. It is certain that had these issues not occured, that the Fw190 "menace" would have
been very notably worse, and it was serious enough as it was.

So we have a de-rated BMW 801D, in a 190 landed for wrong in England, consequently all the 801D were de-rated, also lower
i suppose you miss some infos or this is illogical

the performance of 190 A-5/A-6
at Steig- und Kampfleistung are 634 km/h at 5,900 meters, and 530 km/h at 0
the performance of A-3 at de-rated Notleistung would be a bit better, because the A-3 was a few km/h faster of the later A-5/A-6 and for the bit more power available a de-rated Notleistung (1.35 ata and 2450 rpm vs 1.32 ata and 2400 rpm of "regular" Kampfleustung)

 

[Deleted member 68059]

So we have a de-rated BMW 801D, in a 190 landed for wrong in England, consequently all the 801D were de-rated, also lower
i suppose you miss some infos or this is illogical

the performance of 190 A-5/A-6
at Steig- und Kampfleistung are 634 km/h at 5,900 meters, and 530 km/h at 0
the performance of A-3 at de-rated Notleistung would be a bit better, because the A-3 was a few km/h faster of the later A-5/A-6 and for the bit more power available a de-rated Notleistung (1.35 ata and 2450 rpm vs 1.32 ata and 2400 rpm of "regular" Kampfleustung)

I used that as an example. The reason I am sure of it is because i have read all the German air minstry meeting records, and all the British air intelligence records, and also
the technical files showing what they had to do to fix the BMW 801. Its hard to say the exact period it was de-rated for, but I would say "approximately" for all of 1942 (i.e at least a full year).

Engine data cards found by British Air Intelligence AI2g (below) show that by about April 1943, it was flying in "fully-rated" condition again. ("rated" is hidden under the fold in the page after "fully.." on the 3rd line down". Its uncear what the EXACT date is this occured.

Very serous problems were happening with the 801 from at least December 1941 onewards, so reported Körber at Luftflotte 3 on Dec 16th 1941 to Berlin. (the pilots were often running the 801s at 50% of maximum power to stop failures he says in the report). Direct quote:

"Combat forces of Luftflotte 3 have no confidence in the operational safety of the BMW 801 engine."

 

[MIflyer]

I recall the personal account of an FW-190 pilot in France soon after 6 Jun 1944. They attacked some P-47's that were doing ground attack and were then set upon by P-38's that shot down most of their unit, including him. He caught a ride back to his field where they told him they were evacuating and to go climb in a truck. He saw one FW-190 left on the field and they told him it was U/S. He said he would take his chances in it before he would in a truck. He took off and it was soon overheating; he crashed. Did the FW-190 have a lot of overheating problems, with that very tightly cowled engine?