Still looking for Me-109G info........

[Swede Ware]

This quest started with a question about some -109's have a longer tail wheel strut, which models and why. I have gotten as far as some mfg.s installed them. Well, I can't see some guys standing around at lunch going"Hey,lets cobble up some parts laying around and jack that suckers tail up"! My suspicion is the entire unit was MANUFACTURED. OK, I'd really like to find out WHO, WHEN, WHERE and what models. If anyone can point me to good reference material I would really appreciate it! Now, while on the matter of WTF, I am working a Trumpter 109G-6 in 1/24th. I have to admit my A/C building has not included a -109 since late '50's, Aurora I think, with the pilots head molded in the cockpit area, both sides of fuselage. Now, that's not where it stopped, I still go both sides and sometimes in the middle....Armor for the rust and dust, A/C both field weathered and sleek shiny racers. Even subs. But I like having all the info I can get to work with. Here's the next thing I am trying to figure out. The -109's twin nose guns, mounted in the fuselage and fire from the cowlings. Now, the engine cowlings are raised straight up to have access to the engine. This kit, has that ability, nice touch! But, when I look at photos of the actual A/C, the muzzles appear to extend approximately 8" or so into the gun trough of the cowling, beyond where the opening begins. Trumpeter supplies two small tabs that if used would not allow the cowling to close. The photos also seem to bear this out as it looks like the muzzle has cowling skin under the barrel. I am considering having one upper cowling open as well as the lower cowling. Would kinda like both to be correct. If anyone or "Ones" has any info I would greatly appreciate all I can get! Thanks ................

 

[Snautzer01]

In the g6 series many minor changes can be found in the cowling alone depending were the were made and depending date of build.
I have a file somewhere i think that shows a lot of them and if i dont forget post it when i get home.

 

[Swede Ware]

Snautzer, Hopefully this will have an answer. I cannot find in any photo how the barrel can extend as it does, out the cowling the way Trumpter has it set up. They have a small tab that is supposed to glue, I assume, beneath the barrel, fo one and the positioning of the gun, if the cowling is closed puts the muzzle in a position of firing upwards about 5-7 degrees off line. As I will open only, probably the left cowling, and drop the lower the right side gun maybe some what hidden and I may glue it to the upper skin of the cowling and see what I have from there. But, I still have the left side to deal with and get clear info on the tail wheel leg. Look forward to what you may be able to add to this.

 

[GrauGeist]

The cowl Mgs had a lower panel beneath the end of the barrel that was fixed, so when the cowling was closed, it completed the "trough" and sealed off the engine compartment.
Think of it like a "shaker" hood on a Mopar muscle car - when the hood was opened, the carb intake remained on the engine along with the seal, but when the hood was closed, it looked like it was all one peice.

I don't have my computer handy, but you can use Google images to look for pics of a Bf109G cowl and looking closely at a quality photo, you'll see the seams in the trough towards the end of the barrel, underneath the barrel and along the sides of the barrel.

*edit*
Just did a quick search with my phone and found a good image of the panels - and of all places, it was on Tamiya's website, showing the engine detail of their Bf109G-6.

 

[Swede Ware]

Excellent shot!! This was done putting the tabs UNDER the barrels, where Trump's drawings seem to show glueing them under the gun ports on the cowling. I have to admit that that is a much more intelligent way to go about the mounting! I can work with that! I am still up in the air about the tail wheel leg. I am beginning to think its more a matter of the builders feelings than an exact example. Either way with that, the -6 seems to always have an open strut rather than the kits canvas cover. Have you seen any good detail photos of the Erla Haube canopy? I appreciate the pic that was a big help right there.........

 

[Crimea_River]

Here's a detail shot I have on file:

 

[Swede Ware]

THAT'S a great shot that covers a few things! I can see clearly how the gun mount is for the cowling AND WHY the "wart" had to be used with the change in the guns! I am assuming the "box" like devise outboard of the ejection port for the gun is to catch and direct the empties down the ejection ports below the nose. There was nothing included with the kit to explain the opened area with the blister. That I can scratch on with little problem. I swear the kit has been an anchor around my neck! I started it seven years ago and just could not get into it and closed it up and went back on the shelf. I do a lot of armor,rust and dust. I also do some A/C but odd stuff like prop racing aircraft, a 1/73? scale Ford Tri motor that I ended up with at a comp from the ticket lottery. Friends laughed so I proceeded to make a silk purse from a sows ear out of it. Couple months and $100 in add on parts and decals, cutting, filing and scratching! Even amazed me! I had a 1/20th Nichimo Hughes 'copter that I had for years and last year got tired of dusting the box and built it up with chrome trim and shag carpeting and Lamborghini interior colors with exterior sunburst metal flake paints. Just finished a 4 month go at building up a 1/48th B-24D as a Ploesti A/C. THAT was a lot of time and money. Then looked around and there was the -109 staring at me.....! There are at least 30+ kits on the shelves around me to start but I have GOT to finish this SOB!!! I appreciate your helping with this!!!!!

 

[rprosperi]

Here's a detail shot I have on file:

View attachment 602290

The "box" is the top of the ejection chute that twists around and down behind the engine.

This excellent photo also clearly shows the dog for the manual starter crank and the hole in the right side engine panel the crank handle was inserted through.

The tall tail wheel strut was intended to help younger pilots with poor visibility while taxiing; it was introduced with the G14, but since G14 production also included a lot of reworked G6 chassis, many of them retained the original shorter strut. G6 and G14 machines can be found with every possible combination of tail wheel, tall-metal tails, tall-wooden tails, and more variations. Even with the werk no. it's hard to know for sure the exact build configuration.

 

[Swede Ware]

Yep, I picked up on the shell chute and it would really help closing things up a bit. Right now I am trying to figure a way to mount the guns so that the muzzle opening lines up with the gun muzzle. If mounted as the kit shows and is followed, the muzzle won't line up with the trough in the cowling. To get the gun into a position to actually appear to fire properly means rearranging the mounting as well and some how shortening the actual gun as 1) if mounted as is, the spent shell ducting cannot get anywhere near as its shown in the photo (gun recessed to far to the rear and 2) if mounted where the gun breech and duct match the photo the barrel is at least 10" (scale) out the cowling beyond where it is supposed to be. I have already decided to have the port side cowling closed just to simplify things. So, all I'll have to deal with is the starboard. If this continues to cause me to break for bourbon too often I may just close the whole damn thing up. This has to be either a scale problem with the guns or the gun trough is molded to far to the rear, but, looking at photos that does no look the culprit. After all this. I have a Trump 1/24th Spit that I don't believe I will even open and look at. This is kind of like Dragon kits, looks good up until you start building or try matching it to the real thing. Last was a M-103 heavy tank. Looked good till the start and things seemed odd. Went looking around on Armorama and, sure enough, all told, a "FrankenTank".

 

[Swede Ware]

A long slow build but a kit I was happy to build up ......

 

[rprosperi]

Nice build. The open pilot's windows is a nice touch.

 

[Swede Ware]

Simple to do after making the flat sides to replace the bubbled sides that came with the kit. 'Preciate it, pretty much scratched the rear turret (wrong model for the year I was doing), and kept the dome for the upper and scratched from there. A pile of other stuff was scratched in as well ........

 

[Swede Ware]

This is for all you guys that were kind enough to help this poor soul. Looked up other on line builds for this kit, hopefully to find where I had screwed the pooch while building and it had to be my fault with the guns not wanting to align. Found this and the weight came off. So now just considering to just button da bitch up. Was still thinking of at least leaving the lower panel hang but it was pointed out there is a plumbers nightmare of fuel line branching out, secured to the top (bottom) of the engine. And people ask why I appreciate radial engines!!!....................
The gun troughs are of the earlier style, pressed directly into the cowling panel itself as opposed to separate troughs welded into place. However... for those who want to display the cowlings open, several nasty surprises await.

On a real 109, the upper engine bearers were mounted at the upper corner junction of the firewall and fuselage decking which carried the MG131s. This decking would be flush with the sides of the fuselage when the gun cover was removed (see scans). However, for some reason Trumpeter places this decking about 1/8" below the edges of the fuselage (presumably to make room for the MG131s), and this wrecks the whole geometry of the engine bearers. As given in the kit, rather than a gentle forward and downward slope from the firewall, the bearers slope UP, then horizontal... it's very, very noticeable and those people interested in building their Gustavs with exposed engines will want to consider ways and means to rectify this issue. (see images below) I am working on just such an approach, and will report on this as I progress with my build.


It is odd that the main cowlings are given as open while the gun hood is fixed closed... a razor saw would attend to that right smartly, however. Another very puzzling omission is the complex fuel injection pump centered between the cylinder banks beneath the engine... this was an inline unit with twelve feed lines extending off the top to each cylinder, and the absence of such a prominent part of the engine is puzzling, at best. .................This was posted in "Detail and analysis and Tweaks" for the Trup 1/24th -109G byLynn Ritger

 

[Crimea_River]

You are referencing some images but I don't seem them.

 

[Chris Simmonds]

This quest started with a question about some -109's have a longer tail wheel strut, which models and why. I have gotten as far as some mfg.s installed them. Well, I can't see some guys standing around at lunch going"Hey,lets cobble up some parts laying around and jack that suckers tail up"! My suspicion is the entire unit was MANUFACTURED. OK, I'd really like to find out WHO, WHEN, WHERE and what models. If anyone can point me to good reference material I would really appreciate it! Now, while on the matter of WTF, I am working a Trumpter 109G-6 in 1/24th. I have to admit my A/C building has not included a -109 since late '50's, Aurora I think, with the pilots head molded in the cockpit area, both sides of fuselage. Now, that's not where it stopped, I still go both sides and sometimes in the middle....Armor for the rust and dust, A/C both field weathered and sleek shiny racers. Even subs. But I like having all the info I can get to work with. Here's the next thing I am trying to figure out. The -109's twin nose guns, mounted in the fuselage and fire from the cowlings. Now, the engine cowlings are raised straight up to have access to the engine. This kit, has that ability, nice touch! But, when I look at photos of the actual A/C, the muzzles appear to extend approximately 8" or so into the gun trough of the cowling, beyond where the opening begins. Trumpeter supplies two small tabs that if used would not allow the cowling to close. The photos also seem to bear this out as it looks like the muzzle has cowling skin under the barrel. I am considering having one upper cowling open as well as the lower cowling. Would kinda like both to be correct. If anyone or "Ones" has any info I would greatly appreciate all I can get! Thanks ................

This is the Norwegian G-2 restoration

 

[Chris Simmonds]

G-2

 

[Swede Ware]

You are referencing some images but I don't seem them.

Sorry, only copied out the written part that was addressing the problem I have rub into with this kit.

 

[Swede Ware]

This is the Norwegian G-2 restoration

View attachment 602454View attachment 602455View attachment 602456View attachment 602457View attachment 602458View attachment 602459View attachment 602460View attachment 602461View attachment 602462View attachment 602463

Damn, sorry keep hitting the wrong button, so to speak...Chris, EXCELLENT photos! There was an excellent build article that addressed the gun line up problem that had I known earlier I could have dealt with. But its not worth it to me to cut out the gun bay cowling and rebuild it all. I will just lose the work on the engine and close up the cowlings and spend a bit extra time on the rest. I will stash all your photos as they are great for the hinge setup and the latches.

 

[nuuumannn]

Some more images of the G-6 in Australia and a closeup of the RHS of the cowl of the G-2 at Cosford. Dunno if they are of any assistance; I have more close-ups of both aircraft if you need any.

DSC_5525

DSC_5536

DSC_5547

DSC_5564

DSC_0153

 

[Swede Ware]

Nuuuumann, really great detail photos! I will file these away for reference in the future builds. I am amazed at the amount and usefulness of the photos all of you have in your files!!!! Thanks for the shots!!!!