Jerrybandit67
Airman
- 73
- Mar 11, 2024
since i thought about ww2 submarines were there any instances of submarines sinking another submarine well, Kriegsmarine and IJN ?
Submarine vs Submarine combat
- Thread starter Jerrybandit67
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Thumpalumpacus
Lieutenant Colonel
I know the Brits sank at least one U-boat in WWI, and I think one or two in WWII. The Japanese and Americans each had a kill or two against opposing subs in WWII.
The RN lost a two submarines to German U-boat torpedoes in WW2.
The Kriegsmarine lost 19 German built U-boats plus the ex-Italian UIT-23 to Allied submarine torpedoes (British, US and Soviet) in WW2. Plus a few more to submarine laid mines.
About 18 Italian subs were sunk by submarine torpedoes.
About 20 IJN subs were sunk by Allied subs in WW2 including 2 by RN subs.
The USS Corvina was sunk by a torpedo from I-176 in Nov 1943.
There is one, so far unique, event amongst those sinkings. U864 was sunk by HMS Venturer in Feb 1945 while both submarines were submerged. In all the other cases the victim was travelling on the surface.
en.wikipedia.org
The Kriegsmarine lost 19 German built U-boats plus the ex-Italian UIT-23 to Allied submarine torpedoes (British, US and Soviet) in WW2. Plus a few more to submarine laid mines.
About 18 Italian subs were sunk by submarine torpedoes.
About 20 IJN subs were sunk by Allied subs in WW2 including 2 by RN subs.
The USS Corvina was sunk by a torpedo from I-176 in Nov 1943.
There is one, so far unique, event amongst those sinkings. U864 was sunk by HMS Venturer in Feb 1945 while both submarines were submerged. In all the other cases the victim was travelling on the surface.
Sinking of U-864 - Wikipedia
The Soviets recognized at least two instances of their subs being sunk by torpedoes from German U-boats.
Another Soviet submarine (Shch-305) sank after a collision with the Finnish submarine Vetehinen. The latter first tried unsuccessfully to torpedo the Shch-305, then fired a gun but failed, the gun shots blinded everyone on the command deck of the Vetehinen, resulting in the Finnish submarine crashing into the Soviet submarine at 6 knots.
Another Soviet submarine (Shch-305) sank after a collision with the Finnish submarine Vetehinen. The latter first tried unsuccessfully to torpedo the Shch-305, then fired a gun but failed, the gun shots blinded everyone on the command deck of the Vetehinen, resulting in the Finnish submarine crashing into the Soviet submarine at 6 knots.
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- Thread starter
- #5
Jerrybandit67
Airman
- 73
- Mar 11, 2024
i also heard that USS kete was possibly sunk by Ro-41 but thats only probable, since on 20 march 1945 kete was last seen off okinawa and on same date Ro-41 crossed ketes path, and couldnt report the sinking as the jap sub itself was sunk by destroyers,
uboat.net
Kete (SS-369) of the US Navy - American Submarine of the Balao class - Allied Warships of WWII - uboat.net
The U-boat War in World War Two (Kriegsmarine, 1939-1945) and World War One (Kaiserliche Marine, 1914-1918) and the Allied efforts to counter the threat. This section includes over 21.000 Allied Warships and over 11.000 Allied Commanders of WWII, from the US Navy, Royal Navy, Royal Canadian...
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Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 1,094
- Sep 30, 2021
Ignoring friendly fire.
From J Rohwer, Axis Submarine Successes, in date order, date, axis then allied submarine
10-Apr-40 U-4 Thistle
9-May-40 U-9 Doris
1-Aug-40 U-34 Spearfish
15-Oct-40 Toti Rainbow
19-Dec-40 U-37 Sfax (Vichy)
24-Dec-41 I-166 K-XVI
10-Jan-42 U-584 M-175
11-Oct-42 I-25 L-16
21-Oct-42 Vesihiisi S-7
27-Oct-42 Iku-Turso SC-306
5-Nov-42 Vetehinen SC-305
18-Apr-43 U-123 P.615
26-Aug-43 CB-4 SC-207
16-Nov-43 I-176 Corvina
The list of axis submarines sunk by allies ones according to the Royal Navy Official History, which has the advantage of noting when submarines were involved and tabulates the numbers but has the disadvantage of being old and needing revision, it notes for example the reported sinking of I-8 by USS Grayback is considered incorrect. Axis losses table,
Date, allied then axis submarine
4-Dec-39 Salmon U-36
15-Apr-40 Porpoise U-1
20-Aug-40 Cachalot U-51
28-Nov-41 O-21 U-95
20-Jun-40 Parthian Diamante
15-Dec-40 Thunderbolt Tarantini
31-Mar-41 Roqual Pier Capponi
27-Jun-41 Triumph Salpa
5-Jul-41 Torbay Jantina
7-Aug-41 Severn Michele Bianchi
12-Jan-42 Unbeaten U-374
3-Aug-42 Saracen U-335
21-Jan-43 Sahib U-301
7-Apr-43 Tuna U-644
21-May-43 Sickle U-303
2-Jan-42 Upholder Ammiraglio St. Bon
30-Jan-42 Thorn Medusa
14-Mar-42 Ultimatum Ammiaglio Millo
17-Mar-42 Unbeaten Gugliemotti
18-Mar-42 Upholder Tricheco
9-Nov-42 Saracen Granito
6-Dec-42 Tigris Porfido
9-Feb-43 Dolfijn Malachite
29-Jan-42 Gudgeon I-173
26-Apr-42 Tautog RO-30
17-May-42 Tautog I-28
17-May-42 Triton I-164
20-Dec-42 Seadragon I-4
2-Jan-43 Grayback I-8 cancelled
1-Jun-43 Truculent U-308
30-Aug-43 USSR U-639 Unknown USSR Submarine
30-Oct-43 Ultimatum U-431
14-Feb-44 Tally-Ho U-It-23
19-Apr-44 Ula U-974
13-Jun-43 Unruly Acciaco
15-Jul-43 United Remo
29-Jul-43 Trooper Pietro Micca
7-Sep-43 Shakespeare Velella
27-Jul-43 Scamp I-168
13-Nov-43 Taurus I-34
15-Feb-44 Aspro I-43
23-Mar-44 Tunny I-42
28-Apr-44 Pogy I-183
15-Jun-44 Satyr U-987
23-Sep-44 Trenchant U-859
5-Oct-44 Zwaarvisch U-168
9-Nov-44 Flounder U-537
11-Nov-44 Venturer U-771
9-Feb-45 Venturer U-864
2-Apr-45 Tapir U-486
23-Apr-45 Besugo U-183
17-Jul-44 Telemachus I-166
29-Jul-44 Sawfish I-29
16-Sep-44 Sea Devil I-364
29-Nov-44 Scabbardfish I-365
10-Feb-45 Batfish RO-55
11-Feb-45 Batfish RO-112
13-Feb-45 Batfish RO-115
24-Feb-45 Lagarto I-371
10-Jun-45 Skate I-122
14-Jul-45 Bluefish I-351
14-Aug-45 Spikefish I-373
From J Rohwer, Axis Submarine Successes, in date order, date, axis then allied submarine
10-Apr-40 U-4 Thistle
9-May-40 U-9 Doris
1-Aug-40 U-34 Spearfish
15-Oct-40 Toti Rainbow
19-Dec-40 U-37 Sfax (Vichy)
24-Dec-41 I-166 K-XVI
10-Jan-42 U-584 M-175
11-Oct-42 I-25 L-16
21-Oct-42 Vesihiisi S-7
27-Oct-42 Iku-Turso SC-306
5-Nov-42 Vetehinen SC-305
18-Apr-43 U-123 P.615
26-Aug-43 CB-4 SC-207
16-Nov-43 I-176 Corvina
The list of axis submarines sunk by allies ones according to the Royal Navy Official History, which has the advantage of noting when submarines were involved and tabulates the numbers but has the disadvantage of being old and needing revision, it notes for example the reported sinking of I-8 by USS Grayback is considered incorrect. Axis losses table,
| Time | Germany | Italy | Japan |
1939 | 1 | ||
1940 | 2 | 2 | |
1941 | 1 | 4 | |
1942 | 2 | 7 | 5 |
| Jan to May-43 | 3 | 1 | 1 |
| Jun to Dec-43 | 2 | 4 | 2 |
| Jan to May-44 | 2 | 0 | 3 |
| Jun to Dec-44 | 5 | 0 | 4 |
| Jan to Aug-45 | 3 | 0 | 7 |
| Total | 21 | 18 | 22 |
Date, allied then axis submarine
4-Dec-39 Salmon U-36
15-Apr-40 Porpoise U-1
20-Aug-40 Cachalot U-51
28-Nov-41 O-21 U-95
20-Jun-40 Parthian Diamante
15-Dec-40 Thunderbolt Tarantini
31-Mar-41 Roqual Pier Capponi
27-Jun-41 Triumph Salpa
5-Jul-41 Torbay Jantina
7-Aug-41 Severn Michele Bianchi
12-Jan-42 Unbeaten U-374
3-Aug-42 Saracen U-335
21-Jan-43 Sahib U-301
7-Apr-43 Tuna U-644
21-May-43 Sickle U-303
2-Jan-42 Upholder Ammiraglio St. Bon
30-Jan-42 Thorn Medusa
14-Mar-42 Ultimatum Ammiaglio Millo
17-Mar-42 Unbeaten Gugliemotti
18-Mar-42 Upholder Tricheco
9-Nov-42 Saracen Granito
6-Dec-42 Tigris Porfido
9-Feb-43 Dolfijn Malachite
29-Jan-42 Gudgeon I-173
26-Apr-42 Tautog RO-30
17-May-42 Tautog I-28
17-May-42 Triton I-164
20-Dec-42 Seadragon I-4
2-Jan-43 Grayback I-8 cancelled
1-Jun-43 Truculent U-308
30-Aug-43 USSR U-639 Unknown USSR Submarine
30-Oct-43 Ultimatum U-431
14-Feb-44 Tally-Ho U-It-23
19-Apr-44 Ula U-974
13-Jun-43 Unruly Acciaco
15-Jul-43 United Remo
29-Jul-43 Trooper Pietro Micca
7-Sep-43 Shakespeare Velella
27-Jul-43 Scamp I-168
13-Nov-43 Taurus I-34
15-Feb-44 Aspro I-43
23-Mar-44 Tunny I-42
28-Apr-44 Pogy I-183
15-Jun-44 Satyr U-987
23-Sep-44 Trenchant U-859
5-Oct-44 Zwaarvisch U-168
9-Nov-44 Flounder U-537
11-Nov-44 Venturer U-771
9-Feb-45 Venturer U-864
2-Apr-45 Tapir U-486
23-Apr-45 Besugo U-183
17-Jul-44 Telemachus I-166
29-Jul-44 Sawfish I-29
16-Sep-44 Sea Devil I-364
29-Nov-44 Scabbardfish I-365
10-Feb-45 Batfish RO-55
11-Feb-45 Batfish RO-112
13-Feb-45 Batfish RO-115
24-Feb-45 Lagarto I-371
10-Jun-45 Skate I-122
14-Jul-45 Bluefish I-351
14-Aug-45 Spikefish I-373
- Thread starter
- #7
Jerrybandit67
Airman
- 73
- Mar 11, 2024
you forgot HMS triad wich was sunk by Enrico toti
Looked at the sources again and counted 7 Soviet subs sunk by other subs:
Baltic Fleet
M-94 sunk by torpedo from U-140
M-99 sunk by torpedo from U-149
S-7 sunk by torpedo from Vesihiisi
Shch-305 sunk by Vetehinen ramming
Black Sea Fleet
Shch-203 sunk by torpedo from Italian midget submarine CB-4
Northern Fleet
M-175 sunk by torpedo from U-584
Pacific Fleet
L-16 sunk by torpedo from I-25
Baltic Fleet
M-94 sunk by torpedo from U-140
M-99 sunk by torpedo from U-149
S-7 sunk by torpedo from Vesihiisi
Shch-305 sunk by Vetehinen ramming
Black Sea Fleet
Shch-203 sunk by torpedo from Italian midget submarine CB-4
Northern Fleet
M-175 sunk by torpedo from U-584
Pacific Fleet
L-16 sunk by torpedo from I-25
- Thread starter
- #9
Jerrybandit67
Airman
- 73
- Mar 11, 2024
for japan, they sank 3 subs and have 2 probables(USS snook and USS kete)
The list is both inaccurate and incomplete.
Later research showed that the Shch-306 was killed by a mine and her last torpedo attack was on November 13, 1942 at 4:45 am
Shch-207 safely survived the war and was decommissioned in 1954. Shch-203 was sunk.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Two USN subs, USS Tullibee (SS-284) and USS Tang (SS-306) sank themselves with their own torpedoes.
- Thread starter
- #12
Jerrybandit67
Airman
- 73
- Mar 11, 2024
about the two probable US sub losses by enemy action or sub, those two have a complicated theories
USS snook (lost on 8 april, 1945 was assumed to be sunk by I-56 submarine but also were claims it was sunk by 4 kaibokan boats (it is unlikely that snook was sunk by sub)
while uss kete SS-369 was lost near okinawa, there were three japanese submarines patrolling near kete (ro-41 was known to have crossed kete)
theory 2 was she stumbled onto mines, but she already left the area,
theory 3 was she had faulty diving planes
but it is higly likely, that kete was torpedoed by one of three japanese submarines that were patrolling
(but since japanese subs diddnt confirm any sinkings since all three subs were sunk by destroyers before reaching HQ complicates of what happened)
USS snook (lost on 8 april, 1945 was assumed to be sunk by I-56 submarine but also were claims it was sunk by 4 kaibokan boats (it is unlikely that snook was sunk by sub)
while uss kete SS-369 was lost near okinawa, there were three japanese submarines patrolling near kete (ro-41 was known to have crossed kete)
theory 2 was she stumbled onto mines, but she already left the area,
theory 3 was she had faulty diving planes
but it is higly likely, that kete was torpedoed by one of three japanese submarines that were patrolling
(but since japanese subs diddnt confirm any sinkings since all three subs were sunk by destroyers before reaching HQ complicates of what happened)
- Thread starter
- #14
Jerrybandit67
Airman
- 73
- Mar 11, 2024
what was the best british submarine during ww2
the S T U or V class?
the S T U or V class?
USS Batfish, SS-310 sank three IJN submarines on 6th war patrol Feb 1945 under command of LCdr Jake Fyfe. Awarded Navy Cross. Knew the man and I must say he was an unforgettable character.
