Surviving PB4Y-2 Privateer
- Thread starter MIflyer
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #22
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
I recall them from my time at Vandenberg AFB. They were very obvious in that area. Rumor had it that they were planted to provide lumber for RR ties, only to discover the wood is worthless for that, being too splintery. Pt Mugu comes to mind as a possible location for that base, especially with the fog . I don't know what places like Tustin and Moffet looked like back then, but its not Santa Barbara or any other base I can think of.
Thumpalumpacus
Captain
The Seabee base in Pt Hueneme has a two-mile-long eucalyptus windbreak along Ventura Rd, too.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
At first, the Eucalyptus was thought to be ideal for ship's timbers, which was much needed for ships arriving on the west coast after traveling 'round the "horn".
Unfortunately, Gum trees twist and split as they season, so weren't any good for timbers. In an attempt to recover their investment, the tree owners tried to convince the Railroads that the lumber would be good for rail ties, but no luck, because again, the Eucalyptus was notorious for twisting and splitting.
However, they made perfect windbreaks for citrus groves, especially since the Santa Ana winds could strip entire groves of their blossoms, ruining an entire crop.
There was a massive grove in San Diego at one time, planted for ship's timbers in the 1800s and was still there when I was last in San Diego back in the late 1980's. Not sure if it remains or not, as most of the Eucalyptus (and groves) in the Southland were plowed under during the explosive building boom of the 1980's and 90's onward.
- Thread starter
- #25
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
Eucalyptus seems to grow very quickly in the CA coastal environment. I do not recall seeing any south of, say, Camarillo, but they probably were just more obvious to the north. Obviously, north of about Morrow Bay they had no shortage of good timber for ships or anything else, although with few good places to come ashore.
Here in FL, quite a few Australian Pines were planted and thrived despite the sandy soil but many did not survive the harsh winters of the 1980's and others have been removed as a nuisance.
At VAFB the ice plant installed as ground cover was being ripped out as an "invasive non native species" and replaced with grass, which requires water they do not have. I think that planting Ice Plant and Aloe Vera probably could have prevented that fire disaster on Maui by creating fire breaks.
Here in FL, quite a few Australian Pines were planted and thrived despite the sandy soil but many did not survive the harsh winters of the 1980's and others have been removed as a nuisance.
At VAFB the ice plant installed as ground cover was being ripped out as an "invasive non native species" and replaced with grass, which requires water they do not have. I think that planting Ice Plant and Aloe Vera probably could have prevented that fire disaster on Maui by creating fire breaks.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
There is (or was) a massive grove of (I believe) Blue Gum Eucalyptus trees near Corning along interstate 5. They had planned on using them for paper pulp.
Again, what seemed like a good idea, actually failed due to the nature of Eucalyptus' constitution. This time it was the oil in the tree's wood.
Again, what seemed like a good idea, actually failed due to the nature of Eucalyptus' constitution. This time it was the oil in the tree's wood.
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- Thread starter
- #27
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
Whether for RR ties, ship hulls or paper pulp, you'd think that someone planting all those trees would have some idea of characteristics of the wood they would produce, I guess they did make pretty good windbreaks, but they are rather messy trees. People claimed they could smell the Eucalyptus trees but I never could.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
Sounds like good land for raising herds of koala.
- Thread starter
- #30
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
When my friend Bob Berry's PB4Y-2 and its wingman was attacked by 12 George II fighters they yelled for help over the radio. And help came, a PBM Mariner, which was better than nothing I guess. Fortunately the fighters had departed for home by the time the flying boat got there. Very brave thing for that Mariner crew to do. I'd whole lot rather be in a PB4Y-2 than a PBM in that combat.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Mariner was fairly well armed, so it would have certainly complimented the Privatateer's defenses.
Agreed, though, that it was a brave act to head towards the swarm of hornets.
Agreed, though, that it was a brave act to head towards the swarm of hornets.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
That Mariner would have been alone until it was able join up with the Privateers. Very brave.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
It wasn't unusual for heavies to answer distress calls.
There was an occasion in the Pacific, where a USN PBY was under attack by an IJN Mavis, and a USAAF B-17 came to their aid and shot it down.
Maybe he was just coming to pickup any survivors if one or both of the Privateers got shot down?
cvairwerks
Senior Airman
My uncle's PBM got into a gun fight with U-161, and the PBM won in the long run.....
- Thread starter
- #36
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
Yes, and the PBM followed them back to Okinawa, just in case. Bob's airplane had one engine shut down when a head on pass from a George shot out a throttle linkage, causing the engine to go to full power. The same firing pass blew the top off the nose turret, wounded one of the radiomen, and dumped the forward top turret gunner on his butt when the rounds hit the seat release mechanism. The top turret was jammed, but then Bob found a Japanese round had got stuck in the gears and on the way back to the base he pulled it out and the turret worked again. The nose gunner did not respond to inquires if he was Okay and the pilot told Bob to go forward and get the turret back into operation. One side turret (yes, a real side turret) had an ammo feed failure and was out of operation and with the top turret out of action they needed every gun they could fire. But then the nose gunner waved and went back to firing. After that the IJN fighter turned for home, having lost two of their number to the Privateers. There were a few crewmen slightly wounded and one more seriously, the other radioman. A 20MM round hit the inside armored back of his seat as we was leaning forward and exploded, causing a shotgun-like effect on his back. He eventually had to be evaced to Iwo Jima, since the local field hospitals had their hands full with casualties from the ground fighting. In fact he went up to a field hospital and after a while came back, saying he was embarrassed to be there, the other casualties being much worse off then he.
Incidentally, the wounding of the Privateer crewman showed why the crews often made an unsual mod to their aircraft. They took some of the armor OUT. They found it was better to let the rounds go out rather than have them detonate inside or rattle around doing damage. If the radioman's seat back had been thin sheet metal the round likely would have went right on through it and back out of the airplane.
By the way, the PBM had the same nose turret as the PB4Y-2, made by ERCO, the builder of the Ercoupe.
I read of case where a PB4Y-2 was shot down by Zeros flying out of Iwo Jima. In response, that unit sent out three PB4Y-2, looking for the Zeros. They used their standard technique of getting low to the water and all three airplanes turned into each attack. They shot down Zero after Zero, and apparently made their point, since their aircraft were never bothered again by Zeros from Iwo.
Sigh - I miss Bob.
GreenKnight121
Senior Airman
- 598
- Mar 16, 2014
Passed through JUST the seat back?
Or through the seat back AND him?
- Thread starter
- #38
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
Just passed through the seat back. He was leaning forward and the round came in between his back and the seat back and exploded against the armored seat with the shrapnel hitting his back. If it had gone through an unarmored seat back it might have just passed on through the airplane and outside without exploding. As it was, Bob Berry, the radio operator, had his radio blow up right in front of him from a hit.
GreenKnight121
Senior Airman
- 598
- Mar 16, 2014
Ah... I had read it that the round impacted and exploded on the rear of the seat back, and sent fragments of the seat back armor into him.
If it exploded between him and the seat, then yes... a thin seat would have helped.
