The Zero's Maneuverability

[MikeMeech]

IIRC, the Loire 46 had both armor and self sealed tank already in 1934.

Hi
Have you the source for that, as yet I have not found a source that mentions it even when used in the Spanish Civil War. There were various types of self-sealing tanks coming available by 1918, at least from the French and British as the USAS was looking into these.

Mike

 

[bf109xxl]

Hi
Have you the source for that, as yet I have not found a source that mentions it even when used in the Spanish Civil War. There were various types of self-sealing tanks coming available by 1918, at least from the French and British as the USAS was looking into these.

Mike

Unfortunately I have only one not very reliable source - a compilation article in a Russian-language magazine from 2005 with references to French magazines. I looked at the article in L'Album du Fanatique de l'Aviation (issues 27-28/1971), there is no information about armor or self-retracting tank. I'll try to find the rest of the cited articles from French magazines.

 

[MikeMeech]

Unfortunately I have only one not very reliable source - a compilation article in a Russian-language magazine from 2005 with references to French magazines. I looked at the article in L'Album du Fanatique de l'Aviation (issues 27-28/1971), there is no information about armor or self-retracting tank. I'll try to find the rest of the cited articles from French magazines.

Hi
Thanks for that.
Mike

 

[MiTasol]

Unfortunately I have only one not very reliable source - a compilation article in a Russian-language magazine from 2005 with references to French magazines. I looked at the article in L'Album du Fanatique de l'Aviation (issues 27-28/1971), there is no information about armor or self-retracting tank. I'll try to find the rest of the cited articles from French magazines.

I am sure nearly all of us would love to see some confirmation on that.

 

[bf109xxl]

Unfortunately, I don't speak French, but here is what I found in the article "Le Loire 46 (3ème partie)" by Michel Ledet in Avions: Toute l'aéronautique et son histoire (January 1994 #11), pp. 7-9.

Le réservoir d'essence, logé dans la travée principale, a une contenance de 360 litres; c'est un tronc de pyramide à base rectangulaire dont le fond épouse la forme du fuselage.
Fabriqué en duralumin rivé, il est revêtu d'une protection.
...
L'habitacle est équipé d'un appui-tête et bordé d'un bourrelet de protection.

I would appreciate a correct interpretation of the quoted text.

 

[ThomasP]

Some esoteric late-WWI information I ran across while crawling down the rabbit hole of the WWII SSFT types and manufacturing methods.

 

[MiTasol]

According to IMTranslator that translates as
The fuel tank housed in the main span, has a capacity of 360 litres; it is a truncated pyramid with a rectangular base, the bottom of which follows the shape of the fuselage.
Made of duralumin riveted, it is covered with a protection.
...
The cabin is equipped with a head support and is lined with a pad of protection.

According to Microsoft that translates as
The fuel tank, housed in the main span, has a capacity of 360 liters; It is a rectangular pyramid trunk whose bottom marries the shape of the fuselage.
Made of riveted duralumin, it is coated with protection.
...
The cabin is equipped with a headrest and lined with a protective bead.

According to Gobble it translates as
The fuel tank, housed in the main span, has a capacity of 360 liters; It is a rectangular pyramid trunk whose bottom marries the shape of the fuselage.
Made of riveted duralumin, it is coated with protection.
...
The cabin is equipped with a headrest and lined with a protective bead.

From the three translations

1/ the tank is covered with protection but whether that is protection from corrosion or protection from bullets or protection for the crew when they bump against it is anyone's guess.

2/ the cabin has a headrest and some sort of protection - again against what, bullets or just a cabin lining to protect the structure from people and to keep them warm is again anyone's guess.

Hopefully one of our native French speakers can provide a better interpretation.

 

[bf109xxl]

According to IMTranslator that translates as
...
Hopefully one of our native French speakers can provide a better interpretation.

I know how to use automatic translators, I swear! And of course I used them before posting the text. Moreover, I even asked my French-speaking colleagues for help, but they couldn't help me because they don't know the specific terminology...

 

[Frog]

Unfortunately, I don't speak French, but here is what I found in the article "Le Loire 46 (3ème partie)" by Michel Ledet in Avions: Toute l'aéronautique et son histoire (January 1994 #11), pp. 7-9.

I would appreciate a correct interpretation of the quoted text.
View attachment 832837

The gas tank, located in the main span, has a 360 liters capacity ; it consists of a pyramidal rectangular trunk whose bottom reproduces the fuselage shape.
Made of riveted duralumin, it is coated with a protection.

The cabin is equipped with a head rest and lined with a protective cushion.

 

[yulzari]

Unfortunately, I don't speak French, but here is what I found in the article "Le Loire 46 (3ème partie)" by Michel Ledet in Avions: Toute l'aéronautique et son histoire (January 1994 #11), pp. 7-9.

I would appreciate a correct interpretation of the quoted text.
View attachment 832837

There is nothing there about armour nor self sealing. The first part refers to the shape and tank metal and the second to the cockpit.

 

[Frog]

There is nothing there about armour nor self sealing. The first part refers to the shape and tank metal and the second to the cockpit.

It is because both sentences in French contain a word about protection.

 

[MikeMeech]

Some esoteric late-WWI information I ran across while crawling down the rabbit hole of the WWII SSFT types and manufacturing methods.
View attachment 832871
View attachment 832872
View attachment 832873
View attachment 832875

Hi

Earlier in the USAS document illustrated is the following:

Mike

 

[NZTyphoon]

Getting back to the Zero: an in-depth analysis of the A6M3 was published in Aviation magazine in May 1945, excerpts of which were also posted earlier in this thread. Among other points, the authors noted that

Nothing has been spared to keep weight down....This weight saving design would indicate that the craft is flimsily built, but such is not the case, for it's strength compares favorably with many American-built planes (page 2).

I'll post the complete article here: it makes for really interesting reading. [The complete copy of Aviation May 1945 can be found here the article on the A6M3 starts on page 60]

 

[wrathofatlantis]

"Le réservoir d'essence, logé dans la travée principale, a une contenance de 360 litres; c'est un tronc de pyramide à base rectangulaire dont le fond épouse la forme du fuselage.
Fabriqué en duralumin rivé, il est revêtu d'une protection.
...
L'habitacle est équipé d'un appui-tête et bordé d'un bourrelet de protection."


I am french and the bold highlighted part does not normally mean "coated": "revêtu" means covered in a non-bonded way, like clothing covers you. Vêtements, the root of revêtu, means clothing.
It suggests some thickness where the thickness plays a role in the protection, and not bonded like a coat but a completely separate item.

A simple coating like paint would more likely use the word "recouvert" and specify the type of the coating, especially in a technical context. "Recouvert d'une couche epaisse de peinture caoutchouc": Covered in a thick layer of rubberised paint (as an example).

That being said, a very bad approximate usage could still refer to a coat of an unusually thick specialised protective paint. But it seems doubtful, as the term should imply a separable layer that is not chemically bonded, but slipped over.

 

[MiTasol]

Thank you sir

 

[wrathofatlantis]

Thank you sir

You're welcome.

 

[PStickney]

"Le réservoir d'essence, logé dans la travée principale, a une contenance de 360 litres; c'est un tronc de pyramide à base rectangulaire dont le fond épouse la forme du fuselage.
Fabriqué en duralumin rivé, il est revêtu d'une protection.
...
L'habitacle est équipé d'un appui-tête et bordé d'un bourrelet de protection."


I am french and the bold highlighted part does not normally mean "coated": "revêtu" means covered in a non-bonded way, like clothing covers you. Vêtements, the root of revêtu, means clothing.
It suggests some thickness where the thickness plays a role in the protection, and not bonded like a coat but a completely separate item.

A simple coating like paint would more likely use the word "recouvert" and specify the type of the coating, especially in a technical context. "Recouvert d'une couche epaisse de peinture caoutchouc": Covered in a thick layer of rubberised paint (as an example).

That being said, a very bad approximate usage could still refer to a coat of an unusually thick specialised protective paint. But it seems doubtful, as the term should imply a separable layer that is not chemically bonded, but slipped over.

I'll reply in English, since my French is only suitable for making Francophones insist I speak English -
The description above seems to describe a method sometimes used to provide some measure of self-sealing to the fuel tanks of an aircraft.
The usual method is to have a bladder tank or an interior lining of the self-dealing materiel. A second method was to have an exterior covering of the fuel tank with the self-sealing coating. (This was done on some early P-40 Tomahawks). It's not as effective as the interior linings, but it is better than no self-sealing at all.