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The top speed of the basic 187 was about 330 mph as flown although one was flown at 395 mph which I could assure you weren't close to a capable combat aircraft in hat configuration. Just because you put more powerful engines on board doesn't mean you're going to get great advantages in performance, especially on a twin engine aircraft.However, FW-187 had 1400HP onboard, against 2200 early Bf-110s had. And 110 with almost 3000HP was not capable for 600km/h in clean configuration.
With DB-601E (same as Bf-109F4 had, for example) on board, the power is almost doubled for FW-187. My guestimate is that speeds well beyond 650km/h would've been easily achievable. Not bad for 1941, with off-the shelf parts.
Just because you put more powerful engines on board doesn't mean you're going to get great advantages in performance, especially on a twin engine aircraft.
The price should've be smaller then for Bf-110/210/410. Again, the main isue for 1943 on was the 'price' of pilot, not of the aircraft.
Me-109 + Fw-187 = two fighter designs.Relying on a single fighter design
What German bomber was powered by DB601 / DB605 engines?Building the FW 187 would mean a serious reduction in the availability of bomber engines
Good riddanceor would result in the cancellation of the Bf 110.
The Ju-88 series night fighters have shot down more enemy bombers at night then any other aircraft type in history. That's useful enough for me.Which in turn would leave you without a useful night fighter
The former Me-110 factory is sitting idle. In this scenerio it will now produce Ju-88Cs.unless you start converting your Ju 88s early again leading to a cut in bomber production.
And you haven't considered a more advanced airframe, better power loading and an over all more advanced airframe. Not only was the P-38 faster, it had a service ceiling almost 10,000 feet higher.Fair warning, but when compared what similar-sized, but much heavier P-38 achieved during developmet, my estimate still stands.
While I could agree, I'm sure the LW would look at cost and see what advanced aircraft was more cost effective to produce. If 10 187s cost as much as 10 Ta 152s, I think the decision would be obvious.The price should've be smaller then for Bf-110/210/410. Again, the main isue for 1943 on was the 'price' of pilot, not of the aircraft.
Fair warning, but when compared what similar-sized, but much heavier P-38 achieved during developmet, my estimate still stands.
What German bomber was powered by DB601 / DB605 engines?
Good riddance
The Ju-88 series night fighters have shot down more enemy bombers at night then any other aircraft type in history. That's useful enough for me.
The former Me-110 factory is sitting idle. In this scenerio it will now produce Ju-88Cs
Are you suggesting Germany should have the Ta-152 production ready during 1940, allowing a comparison with the Fw-187?If 10 187s cost as much as 10 Ta 152s, I think the decision would be obvious.
Are you suggesting Germany should have the Ta-152 production ready during 1940, allowing a comparison with the Fw-187?
The Do-215 was produced in limited quantities for export. It has nothing to do with aircraft mass produced for the Luftwaffe.
More like one fighter + one heavy fighter. What if you run into development problems with the 109 (what actually kind of happened).Me-109 + Fw-187 = two fighter designs.
FW 187 A-0 were powered by Jumo 210.What German bomber was powered by DB601 / DB605 engines?
First of all I think Me 110 shot down more bombers overall, but I'm no expert. Please someone with the knowledge shed some light into this.Good riddance
The Ju-88 series night fighters have shot down more enemy bombers at night then any other aircraft type in history. That's useful enough for me.
Which is a much larger more expensive airframe and not necessarily needed in 1940. So you significantly increased production costs for your night fighter and did the same for your daytime fighter force.The former Me-110 factory is sitting idle. In this scenerio it will now produce Ju-88Cs.
No, I'm saying the 187 and by 1943 the -109 were a waste of time and resources. I'd be pumping out Ta-152s, Me-262s like there was no tomorrow.
And you haven't considered a more advanced airframe, better power loading and an over all more advanced airframe. Not only was the P-38 faster, it had a service ceiling almost 10,000 feet higher.
What P-38 had was double the horse power. FW-187 with 2 x DB-601 (= 2200 to 2700 HP) wold've been more than a match for contemporary versions of P-38, both speed- and altitude-wise.
While I could agree, I'm sure the LW would look at cost and see what advanced aircraft was more cost effective to produce. If 10 187s cost as much as 10 Ta 152s, I think the decision would be obvious.
Ta-152 is not a contender here, since it was manufactured in 1945.
When doing these estimates please try to factor in not only the weight of the larger engines but the large cooleant radiators, the larger propellers, the larger cowls and etc. Also factor in the larger fuel tanks to feed the larger engines.
The much heavier P-38 also carried a much heavier armament and achieved it's performance, in part because of it's turbos, it's over 400mph speed were achieved over 20,000ft for the most part but some later models were still good for 400mph at 35,000ft.
FW-187 weighted some 2 tons less then P-38. Even if we add a full ton because of heavier engines armament, the doubled engine power more then cures the issue.
Please note that the 395mph speed of the FW 187 was achieved using a "surface evaporative cooling system" which, while used by many race planes going back to the 20's was never used on service combat planes for good reason.
Since I was never fond to evaporative cooling, the up-engined FW-187 would've used regular one.
I actually like the FW 187 and wonder what it could have done with uprated JUMO 210s but turning it into a 400mph, heavily armed fighter might be more difficult than it first appears.
I agree if we are only going back to January 1943. By that point in time the Fw-190 and BMW801 engine are already in mass production.No, I'm saying the 187 and by 1943 the -109 were a waste of time and resources. I'd be pumping out Ta-152s, Me-262s like there was no tomorrow.
Not really - as stated, just because you bolt on a more powerful engine doesn't always mean you're getting great gains in performance. Weight, systems, airframe aerodynamics have to be considered.What P-38 had was double the horse power. FW-187 with 2 x DB-601 (= 2200 to 2700 HP) wold've been more than a match for contemporary versions of P-38, both speed- and altitude-wise.
Ta-152 is not a contender here, since it was manufactured in 1945.