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The YP-38 was about 3,000lbs heavier not 4,000lbs. that is empty weight.
Almost 1,5 tons is still a pretty big difference.
It is quite likely that niether plane had armor or self sealing tanks.
Changing from Jumo 210s to DB 601s is going to add around 280lbs per engine, dry weight. It could easily be another 100lbs per propellor and so on for the cowlings, engine oil, radiators and so on. does it equel 3000lbs?
No but then we haven't doubled the engine power either. Just gone from 700hp to 1150hp. and at altitudes under 20,000ft.
The P-38 (early versions) could keep making 1150hp all the way to 25,000ft. Later versions could make 1100hp at 32500-34000ft at 2600rpm (high speed cruise). of course it took the heavy, bulky turbo-charger system to do it.
So the weight goes up 15%, while power jumps 60% (for DB-601A, 1939), or 90% (601E, 1941). Looks a bargain for me.
What altitude did you want the FW 187 to fight at?
From 0 to 30 000ft?
"Since I was never fond to evaporative cooling, the up-engined FW-187 would've used regular one."
Yep, but since they used that system to get less drag (more speed) it means that the plane with a regular system is slower.
The added power takes care about that.
And then we get to the CG and load factor problems. Most of the weight is in front of the CG which requires shifting items of equipment and/or ballast and/or a rear fuselage stretch to balance things out. Not impossiable but not done at zero cost to performance. Did the FW 187 V6 have any guns or did the lack of armament help the CG issue?
I'd mount radiators at the back of nacelle, and perhaps shift armament backward in order to compensate for added weight.
Load factor. what was the load factor of the original design? just for illistrations sake let's say the FW 187 had a load factor of 7 'G's. at 11,000lbs. Now if we up the weight to 12,000lbs the load factor drops to about 6.4 'G's and at 13,000lbs it drops to 5.92 'G's.
Now maybe the FW 187 had a reserve of strength and doesn't need any beefed up structure and maybe there is no reserve of strength.
We don't know that.
By the way, The P-38 carried 992lbs worth of guns and ammo. Heavy armament usually means heavy airplanes.
Agree.
The original 1940 version would be primarily a bomber escort. Therefore it will operate at the same height as He-111s and Ju-88s.
Around 1943 a bomber killer version would appear. This would have engines rated for high altitude and 4 nose mounted cannon.
That certainly is not the Fw-190. Development began during the fall of 1937. By January 1943 (over 5 years) a total of about 2,000 Fw-190s have been produced and the aircraft still has serious teething problems relating to the BMW801 engine.better off going with a single engine fighter that could be produced quickly
I still would like to know why you consider the Fw 190 so superior? Plus, Hohun already showed that the Fw 190s had a similar amount of take off and landing accidents as the Bf 109.Would have, should have - by 43' you were better off going with a single engine fighter that could be produced quickly and had the maneuverability and performance to kill bombers and deal with fighters. The Fw 190 was the prime example and history shows us it had the armament to do the job. Additionally it didn't have the nasty landing habits of the 109.
That certainly is not the Fw-190. Development began during the fall of 1937. By January 1943 (over 5 years) a total of about 2,000 Fw-190s have been produced and the aircraft still has serious teething problems relating to the BMW801 engine.
If you want an additional single engine fighter type that can be produced quickly and at low cost I recommend the He-100. Like the Fw-187 it was production ready in 1940 and is powered by the inexpensive DB601 / DB605 engine. It will not interfere with Me-109 production as the He-100 would be built at a Heinkel factory.
I read Erich saying something similar to the R4 gunpods. If it is like this it is hard to understand why or how. These pods were not bigger than the R6 pods and also the weight was not that much of a problem.IIRC the underwing MK 108 pods were never actually fitted to Me 109s in combat. Moreover the Fw had a heavy armament by default. Add that extra weaponry to a 109 and you significantly decrease its performance. Come on, we all know the 190 was way superior to the 109 as a bomber interceptor.
I agree, The He 100 had less development potential than the Bf 109. Also, using the same engine means you are completely relying on one engine which is just as dangerous as relying on one fighter aircraft.The solution to the 109 problem is not going to be a plane that has most of the problems of the 109 only more so.
Granted the He 100 would probably been a bit easier to land and take off in some ways. wider track undercarrage and all that.
But it achieved a good part of it's performance by being smaller than the 109.
Since a good number of the 109s problems later in it's career stem from it's size I anm not sure how adopting an even smaller airframe solves any of them.
The He 100 was armed with a 20mm FF through the prop which didn't work on the service 109s all that well and a one MG 17 in each wing root. With little or no room in the outer wings this doesn't look good for alternative armament fits early in the He 100s service.
Maybe you can stuff MG 131s into the wing root WHEN they become available but that doesn't help things in 1941 much. Yes you can probably fit the MG 151 into the engine but again when does that become available?
so in 1942 sometime you can actually get something approaching effective anti-fighter armament into the He 100 (a single MG 151 and a pair of MG 131s) but since this isn't an effective anti-bomber armament what have you gained.
The He 100 won't really hold much more fuel so any advantage in range is just what the lower drag gives you.
Can you stuff the MW 50 tanks or Nitrous into the smaller airframe? And without the Nitrous why should the He 100 perform any better at altitude than the 109?
Since the Germans historicly had a SHORTAGE of DB engines in the early part of the war which did curtail a number of programs just where are all these cheap, easy to produce DB engines coming from?
It might help if a timeline was established as to just which versions of which engines were available when.
Otherwise there may (or maynot) be a gap in between late 1942 and 1944 when the only engine for ANY use over 1500hp is the DB 603 if the BMW is cut from production.
How long would it take to retool the BMW factory from radial production to inline engine production?
That certainly is not the Fw-190. Development began during the fall of 1937. By January 1943 (over 5 years) a total of about 2,000 Fw-190s have been produced and the aircraft still has serious teething problems relating to the BMW801 engine.
I agree. I consider the Me-109 overall superior to the He-100. I'm just pointing out that if Germany wants a second fighter type during 1940 the He-100 is available whereas the Fw-190 is still two years in the future. In fact as of 1940 RLM does not know whether the BMW801 engine will ever work properly. The BMW801 design could end up on the scrap heap as happened to the Jumo222 and many other engine prototypes.The He 100 had less development potential than the Bf 109.
Technically more Fw 190s were produced per year since its introduction than the Bf 109. So how was the Fw 190 more difficult to build than the Bf 109?
Don't take me wrong, my little breakdown above is not really accurate or an accurate way of deciding which was more difficult. My point only being that the development time of an aircraft is not an indication of the difficulty of the production of an aircraft. There are just too many factors that come into play.
Of course if "Willy" and the boys hadn't screwed up so bad on the 210 the 110 might have just faded away.
I agree. I consider the Me-109 overall superior to the He-100. I'm just pointing out that if Germany wants a second fighter type during 1940 the He-100 is available whereas the Fw-190 is still two years in the future. In fact as of 1940 RLM does not know whether the BMW801 engine will ever work properly.
By 1943 both Britain and the USA have made a huge committment to heavy bomber production. It stands to reason they will not allow Germany to keep slaughtering these very expensive aircraft. Germany cannot predict the P-51D but they can predict that U.S. 8th Air Force will come up with some sort of very long range escort fighter.So the question arises, "what in early 1943" drives the LW to upgrade either the 190 or 109 when they believed no high performance fighter would ever have the range to challenge the LW over Germany?