Canceled.
Sad but predictable. So what will be the consequences? Airbus and Germany join GCAP, and France does their own thing in developing a Rafale successor? OTOH, can the GCAP program take on major new partners at this point without years of bickering?
I think with Sweden now in NATO and Russia pushing folks to expedite defence programs, we may see all of ex-USA NATO, including the non-EU members (UK, Norway and Canada) but perhaps excluding Turkey join in the GCAP program along with Japan. Though I have to think that a dozen or more chefs in the kitchen is going to become unworkable.
2 weeks ago, Spain and Germany reached an agreement with Saab to develop phase 2 of the FCAS... Since 2024, with the start of the tensions, the Spanish government had been working with the Swedish government to reach the agreement. In fact, Spain has allocated 700 million in the budget this week for this project.
Alemania y España se unen para crear el caza del futuro después del fracaso del FCAS
Airbus lidera la iniciativa 'Team Gen 6' para desarrollar un avión de combate de sexta generación, enfrentándose a desafíos para conseguir apoyo político, financiación y socios potencialeswww.elconfidencial.com
In fact, according to some sources from the Spanish Ministry of Defence, Aeromacchi has been offered to join the project to develop the flight simulator.
Another piece of information I just read, in Infodefensa, a specialized press outlet for Spanish and international military aviation, is that the Getafe FAL (Spanish EF assembly plant) has increased production from 17 to 20 aircraft in 2026, and from 20 to 25 between 2027 and 2028, so that a new fighter will enter production in 2029. At Airbus DP (Spanish military Airbus), the only fighter project currently underway is the FCAS, since the GCAP is still being developed between Talavera de la Reina and Seville... yet another indication that counting your chickens before they hatch is a common tactic in the sensationalist press.
The Bayraktar Kızılelma? Have you got proof of their being an investment because all that I have seen to date is that there have been some early discussions regarding possible investments but that there has been no decisions to date.
To replace the AV-8B with the Bayraktar Kızılelma will most likely require mods to the ship that use it, the Juan Carlos I as the Bayraktar Kızılelma has no VTOL capability. It is more akin to a loyal wingman/UCAS type. From publicly available data it certainly wouldn't be a adequate replacement for the AV-8B in terms of pure performance.
Here we go again with conspiracy theory stuff...sigh.
Given the situation with the program I highly doubt there will be any production in 2029
The Bayraktar Kızılelma? Have you got proof of their being an investment because all that I have seen to date is that there have been some early discussions regarding possible investments but that there has been no decisions to date.
To replace the AV-8B with the Bayraktar Kızılelma will most likely require mods to the ship that use it, the Juan Carlos I as the Bayraktar Kızılelma has no VTOL capability. It is more akin to a loyal wingman/UCAS type. From publicly available data it certainly wouldn't be a adequate replacement for the AV-8B in terms of pure performance.
Here we go again with conspiracy theory stuff...sigh.
Well, let's see, there are countless articles on the subject, dating back to January 2025. In fact, Indra (a Spanish company) is involved in several projects with Turkish aeronautical authorities. Defense Minister Margarita Robles made it public; it was published in the Official State Gazette (BOE) about three months ago.
It is one thing for a private company (Indra) to be involved and another thing for the Spanish Govt to be. Either way, I stillfaigl to see any record of either Indra or the Spanish govt being involved with the Bayraktar Kızılelma. Please provide evidence.
It is one thing to take off from the carrier in question. I will admit that that is possible. Landing a CTOL type, which the Bayraktar Kızılelma is, will still require mods to the carrier though. Which is what I stated.
Overtaking really? Given a F-16 is capable of Mach 2 and the Bayraktar Kızılelma is capable of Mach 0.9 I somehow doubt that. Now if we are talking about it achieving a simulated shootdown then sure, it is possible but so what? The Bayraktar Kızılelma is still not in the same league as the AV-8B in terms of overall capability.
Well inform me with proof because my searches found nothing stating that Spain has actually invested in the Bayraktar Kızılelma.
Well, it's clear that 5.7 million euros plus an additional 700 million euros later, given by Spain for 30 Hürjets and 2 simulators, do you see or think that's the price?... Your information leaves much to be desired. Indra is owned by SEPI with 28% of the shares, meaning SEPI is the Spanish government, not a private company, which is very different.... On June 26th of this year, the Minister of Transport was at the Kililzema assembly plant because the Minister of Defense was ill, and why would the Minister of Defense have gone to the Baykar plant? To see the Hürjets? Or the Kililzema or the TB-3? Oh, wait, Spain already has the SIRTAP system operational on LHDs! Out of curiosity, have you looked at the Official State Gazette (BOE) from March to May of this year where the 700 million euro allocation to Baykar is mentioned? Because what better proof than to go to the original source! "The Ministry of Defense is contributing 700 million to the Baykar company for the development of next-generation autonomous drones as part of the Spanish Navy's rearmament plan in anticipation of the imminent decommissioning of the Va1b (av 1b) units." In short,
I am very aware of the Hürjet order (which I believe was for 45 not 30) but that is totally different to the Bayraktar Kızılelma UCAS. And knowing how major platforms such as this are priced it does not surprise me one bit, especially when training and other support is factored in. If you are claiming that somehow this price includes investment in the Bayraktar Kızılelma by all means provide evidence.
From my understanding, SEPI owns less than 30% with the remainder owned by other private investors. Therefore, my position that Indra is a private company and not the Spanish Govt remains correct.
Politicians do visits like this all the time. And yes there may be some interest. But that is still a long way from actual firm commitments/contracts re investments let alone commitments to buy.
Are you talking about the SIRTAP piston engined drone? First up, there is a massive difference between a piston engined drone that can do 200km/hr and a jet powered UCAS such as the Bayraktar Kızılelma. Moreover, I am curious that you claim it is already operational on LHDs when I understand the first is scheduled to be delivered in 2027 and that while there have been some photos released of it on a LHD, the reporting related to that indicate there is talk about trying to integrate it with the ships. Again, a far cry from being operational.
As I have asked already - please provide this evidence - even just a link to.
???
www.theglobeandmail.com
