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"...Makes you wonder though, if WW2 hadn't happened would it have become so dominant?"
That doesn't stand up either, my Friend.
From the moment the 13 Colonies won their independence from the Crown, the USA was headed for dominance ..... not God-Given dominance ... but nonetheless Manifest Destiny dominance.
All WW2 confirmed was what WW1 had already demonstrated ..... that Europe - aka the rest of the world - was in flux .... leaving an open-wide opportunity for America (industry, finance, military, science, etc) to show what it could do. The world needed an america.And for the most part, the world is a better place for what America has done.
MM
Proud Canadian
As for aerodynamics, superchargers etc:
Many renown, non-US airplanes used NACA airfoils; Spitfire, Fw-190, Lavotchinks, you name it. NACA cowl is/was also US invention. The 100 oct fuel was a great thing, crucial for the BoB, and USA was in the forefront of the development production of that and better fuels.
P&W was 1st to design produce a two stage supercharged engine (bar prototypes and one-offs). US was producing many semi- and full-automatic weapons, even in prior ww2 begun; their artillery was second to none. OTOH, many countries used Oerlikon and Bofors automatic cannons, UK was one of them; Hispano II-V was a development of a French design.
By the time of its 50th anniversary, the soft drink had reached the status of a national icon in the USA. In 1935, it was certified kosher by Atlanta Rabbi Tobias Geffen, after the company made minor changes in the sourcing of some ingredients.
Claimed to be the first installation anywhere of the 1948 model "Boat Motor" styled Coca-Cola soda dispenser, Fleeman's Pharmacy, Atlanta, Georgia. The "Boat Motor" soda dispenser was introduced in the late 1930s and manufactured till the late 1950s.
The longest running commercial Coca-Cola soda fountain anywhere was Atlanta's Fleeman's Pharmacy, which first opened its doors in 1914. Jack Fleeman took over the pharmacy from his father and ran it till 1995; closing it after 81 years.
"...Makes you wonder though, if WW2 hadn't happened would it have become so dominant?"
That doesn't stand up either, my Friend.
From the moment the 13 Colonies won their independence from the Crown, the USA was headed for dominance ..... not God-Given dominance ... but nonetheless Manifest Destiny dominance.
All WW2 confirmed was what WW1 had already demonstrated ..... that Europe - aka the rest of the world - was in flux .... leaving an open-wide opportunity for America (industry, finance, military, science, etc) to show what it could do. The world needed an america.And for the most part, the world is a better place for what America has done.
MM
Proud Canadian
I just wrote that comment down for a bit of banter to be honest. I read quite a lot on the American revolution some years ago and the actual facts behind it differ considerably from what has now become popular folklore."...all a British invention".
I'd question your choice of words.The American Revolution was a product of the entire British-Anglo-Saxon experience. But the Boston Tea Party was NOT a British invention. The New World was a new world .... it had never been feudal ... and Colonial Masters got into trouble when they failed to recognize that fact.
P51 B-D powered by a copy of which engine? first installed in which country. P51 H significantly improved performance due to an engine powered in which country and used the design stress rules used in which country?Bushwa.
Aerodynamics??? P-51, B-29 for starters..
True but who had the better in line engines? I look on that as a draw particually if you think about the first jet engines .Engines??? P&W and Wright were taking over the world markets for radial engines during the 30s..
Fair to say we did pretty well with what we had.Superchargers??? until Hooker showed up everybodies superchargers were crap. British produced how many turbo aircraft?.
Some? Navigation, Radar, Huff Duff, you name it .Electronics??? Yes the British were ahead in some areas..
The Lee Enfield which was close to but not as good as the Garrand, The Bren modified to UK requirements but a lot better than the BAR. The 6pd AT gun copied by which country?Weapons??? Gee, I guess I forgot about about the British semi-auto rifle that was standard issue in WW II. The British Semi-auto pistol? The British light machine gun? (designed where?) the Browning machine guns that armed the British planes? Etc,etc, etc..
British MTB's at the start of the war used Italian engines and the Packards were copies of which engine?So behind that Bren carriers were powered by copies of the Ford V-8 car engine? British Motor torpedo boats used Packard engines? Other British launches used Hall-Scott engines? British army used American trucks for heavy hauling? .
AEC 7.6 litre on MatadorPlease point out these advanced British car and truck engines? .
But they missed the war which is when they would have been needed and were not an improvement on UK Designs whithout which the USA would have been further behind .Rather ignores the GE J-35 and Westinghouse engines doesn't it?.
By 1939 most UK farms did have electricity as those outside the national grid were given access to Generators and yes the majority did have indoor plumbing to a limited degree. War preperations were very detailed such as farms were given Linoleum for floors to ease cleaning freeing up time for farming. The latest techniques were taught to all farmers, tractors were being ordered to improve production and so onAnd just when did the British motorway system come into existence? Pre WWII? I think not.
I also tend to doubt that every Cotswold cottage, Scottish sheep farm or Welsh residence had indoor pluming and electricity in the 1930s either.
Yes there were large areas of poverty in the US in the 1930s ( and some still exist) but in many countries in the 1930s once you got out of the cities, Services tended to go peter out pretty quickly..
[/QUOTE]By 1939 most UK farms did have electricity as those outside the national grid were given access to Generators and yes the majority did have indoor plumbing to a limited degree. War preperations were very detailed such as farms were given Linoleum for floors to ease cleaning freeing up time for farming. The latest techniques were taught to all farmers, tractors were being ordered to improve production and so on
The A&AEE did test DK290/G at +12 lbs April-May 1943, fitted with de-H multi-fishtail ejector exhausts. The "certain stores" being tested were the Highball bouncing bombs so the top speeds being registered were lower than Mosquitoes with full bomb bay doors http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/dk290.pdf
cf the tests done at + 9 lbs boost comparing open vs shrouded exhausts; maximum speeds were 367 mph @ 21,600 ft shrouds vs 380 mph @ 21,900 ejector exhausts: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mosquito/dk290-b.pdf
P51 B-D powered by a copy of which engine? first installed in which country.
True but who had the better in line engines? I look on that as a draw particually if you think about the first jet engines .
Fair to say we did pretty well with what we had.Some? Navigation, Radar, Huff Duff, you name it .
The Lee Enfield which was close to but not as good as the Garrand, The Bren modified to UK requirements but a lot better than the BAR. The 6pd AT gun copied by which country?
The US and UK 20mm aircraft guns were both based on the French design but which was far more reliable in combat? the Bofors guns used by all sides were designed in which country? (clue not UK or USA). While we are at it the 20mm AA guns were also designed in which country (again not UK or USA).
British MTB's at the start of the war used Italian engines and the Packards were copies of which engine?
AEC 7.6 litre on Matador
Bedford on Bedford QLD
Morris EH on Artillery Tractors
Gardner engines on Scammell pioneer Trucks
But they missed the war which is when they would have been needed and were not an improvement on UK Designs whithout which the USA would have been further behind .
By 1939 most UK farms did have electricity as those outside the national grid were given access to Generators and yes the majority did have indoor plumbing to a limited degree. War preperations were very detailed such as farms were given Linoleum for floors to ease cleaning freeing up time for farming. The latest techniques were taught to all farmers, tractors were being ordered to improve production and so on
So a civilization is to be judged by the sophistication of it's plumbing ??
A small point but officially I believe the USAAF considered the Mosquito to be unsuitable for night operations, hard to believe I know, but true.
I think the best bet would be to research the individual squadron histories and see if/when they report the modifications.
Nothing but we could do aerodynamics Mossie, Spit but what made the P51 was the Merlin. What made the P51H were UK design standards not USWhat does the engine have to do with aerodynamics?
If it wasn't the P51 wouldn't have needed the Merlin to make it the plane it became.Early Allison and Early Merlin weren't that far apart. Merlin got better superchargers sooner. You are claiming the US was behind in piston engines, it wasn't.
True but these came late after that Battle of the Atlantic was won, by Radar, Huff duff and other UK devices and weapons such as Hedghog, Squid, Leigh Light.Homing torpedoes?
The British were ahead of the USA as they recognised they needed an LMG and got the best they could without worrying about their ego and NIH issues. The 6pd wasn't a collaberation it was the best weapon of its time and the USA copied it.I like the Lee Enfield but you either have a semi-automatic rifle or you don't. The BAR was not a LMG, it was an automatic rifle. Saying the British were ahead of the Americans because they converted a Czech machine gun to fire the .303 round is pushing things. The 6pdr was revolutionary how? The Americans and British agreed to use some of the same weapons/calibers to make supply easier. The other main artillery collaboration was a mistake. Less said about the 4.5in gun the better.
Be fair I did point out that the 20mm and the 40mm were neither US or UK designs and neither country was ahead of the rest.And this shows the US was behind the rest of the world and Britain in particular how?
Nope the US 20mm was handled in an dreadful manner. The same basic design was taken by both the UK and USA. the UK got it to work and the USA didn't. It was in US hand a huge waste of resources and to put it down to a single error is way off the mark.The US 20mm aircraft gun problem was a stupid mistake in chamber dimension.
The 1.1 was replaced as soon as possible and was a very poor weapon, plus its noticable that the US Army preferred the M16 to the M15 weapon.The US did have it's own 1.1in Navel AA gun and it's own 37mm Army AA gun. While not as good as the Swedish 40mm Bofors they were as good or better than most of the Light AA that the rest of the world started WW II with ( French and German 37mm Naval AA weren't even automatic weapons).
Correct that I grant but the interesting thing is that we preferred the Italian engines so as to which was best I cannot comment onPackard marine engines weren't a copy of anything, they were a modified version of the late 1920s Packard aircraft engine.
It wan't a case of superiority. You asked for examples of advanced british engines and I gave some concentrating on specialist trucks, simple as that.Thank you for proving my point. while you list two diesels the middle two engines are 3.5 liter gasoline engines of 70-72hp which don't seem to offer any real advantage over American gasoline engines of about the same size and power as used in Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge and other cars and trucks. In 1940 the British came to Diamond Reo for a tank transporter that used a Hercules diesel of 14.7 liters and 185hp. Just about the same power per liter as the AEC Matadoe engine. Where is the British superiority?
If you are going to quote me, at least get the quote right. I said Designs whithout which the USA would have been further behindChanging the argument now?
You original statement "Even post war, the US had to use and/or license Rolls Royce jet engines because it couldn't design/make any itself. Basically it did a Jaapan/China thing. Copy and build foreign designs and then later make its own designs."
Nothing about missing the war in the first statement. and I would note that the US ONLY used a handful (2-4) of British built engines during the war on a few prototype aircraft so the parts of the statement that they had to use Rolls Royce engines because they couldn't make any itself post war is rather dubious.
No idea as to when 1,600 thrust was developed on the bench but the first Derwent was in production in 1943 with 2,000ibGE got the Whittle bench engine 1st of Oct 1941, by 18th April 1942 the General Electric I was running and on the 2nd Oct 1942 two GE 1-A engines powered the XP-59A on it's first flight. Only 5 months ahead of the Gloster Meteor. At this time the GE I-16 was already running on the bench at 1600bs thrust. When did the Welland reach 1600lbs thrust?
I am not saying anything, I was just putting some flesh onto the statement. Without the war war preparation UK farming would have been much further behind. Had the USA seen a war on the way I have no doubt at all that similar and maybe more would ahve been done.by 1939 many of those things could be said about the majority of American farms. One can always pick and choose examples of poor conditions or poor areas but it is very bad practice to extend those examples to making generalities about a nation as a whole. The US was very much larger than Britain and while there were large areas and large numbers of poor farmers on average American farmers had more tractors/motor vehicles than any other nation. This is not saying the British were backwards, just saying the Americans were NOT as far behind as you seem to think.
Nothing but we could do aerodynamics Mossie, Spit but what made the P51 was the Merlin. What made the P51H were UK design standards not US
If it wasn't the P51 wouldn't have needed the Merlin to make it the plane it became.
True but these came late after that Battle of the Atlantic was won, by Radar, Huff duff and other UK devices and weapons such as Hedghog, Squid, Leigh Light.
The Americans had a different infantry tactical doctrine, it may have been wrong but that doesn't mean they were behind in weapons. Of all the weapons in an infantry battalion ONLY the Bren gun could be considered superior to it's American equivalent. A few other things might be equal. The US didn't collaborate in the design of the 6pdr but since the US was going to make 6pdr ammo why not use the British gun? BTW, the US had a design for their own 57mm AT gun and 4 pilot models were built. US decided on the British gun and approved the American version ( tolerances and thread sizes and such) 6 months before the British got the 6pdr into production in Britain.The British were ahead of the USA as they recognised they needed an LMG and got the best they could without worrying about their ego and NIH issues. The 6pd wasn't a collaboration it was the best weapon of its time and the USA copied it.
Nope the US 20mm was handled in an dreadful manner. The same basic design was taken by both the UK and USA. the UK got it to work and the USA didn't. It was in US hand a huge waste of resources and to put it down to a single error is way off the mark.
The 1.1 was replaced as soon as possible and was a very poor weapon, plus its noticable that the US Army preferred the M16 to the M15 weapon.
Correct that I grant but the interesting thing is that we preferred the Italian engines so as to which was best I cannot comment on
It wan't a case of superiority. You asked for examples of advanced British engines and I gave some concentrating on specialist trucks, simple as that.
If you are going to quote me, at least get the quote right. I said Designs whithout which the USA would have been further behind
Basis of this was simple point. The GE1 was based on the Gloster Whittle engine. Without that the USA would have been further behind. The J 33 was based on the J31 which was a production version of the British Whittle 1 which supports my point. You yourself pointed out that UK and US engines started from the same position and developed alongside each other which is the point of my statement. Without the British start the USA would ahve been behind.
No idea as to when 1,600 thrust was developed on the bench but the first Derwent was in production in 1943 with 2,000ib