USN carrier night fighters

[R Leonard]

Going through my archives and found these F4U-2 photos

Here's a F4U-2 from VF(N)-101 aboard USS Enterprise

USN Photo

And here's F4U-2s aboard USS Intrepid, squadron is not identified, but I suspect it may be a VF(N)-101 Detatchment

USN Photo

Regards,

Rich

 

[trackend]

I'm just finishing a book that has some info on pre war carrier development I never realized what a conglomeration of Ideas and design the carrier development came from especially from the US and UK and how adoption of air power at sea as a viable force was very reluctantly accepted by some commanders.
Thanks for the interesting read in this thread guys I've learned alot
(mind you I don't know much to begin with so the only way is up)

 

[MP-Willow]

Tracked you are welcome. The carrier was an interesting development and really a lot of it is thanks to the British. But the Japanese really tock it to heart first. I hope we can all learn here I have

ich, that F4U has the radar way out on the end of the wing yes? It seems a bit far out? And I would think balance would be off

 

[maxs75]

The converted F4U-2 had one 12,7 mm MG less (5 in total) to partially balance the radar weight. The F6F retained all 6, moreover some F6F-5N had 2 20 mm guns instead of the inner wing Mg pair (total 4 MG, 2x20mm).
Not 100% sure, but I believe that the radar weigth was balanced by the engine torque. Both Hellcats and Corsairs had it on the right wing. Probably the R-2800 rotated clockwise.

AFAIK the only F4U-2 carrier squadron was VF(N)-101. Both VF(N)-75 and VMF(N)-532 were only land based.


Max

 

[HealzDevo]

It was a WW1 Invention, there were a few carriers that were equiped with steam catapults and they were merchant carriers however, the aircraft was lost each time it was used, unless it was a sea-plane. Later, however, there was incorporation of a deck into the design and the carrier was born. A unique weapon, it was not really used in WW1 (Could have saved some lives at Gallipoli maybe if a few available as spotters, bombers, etc). It was in WW2 due to the Pearl Habour Disaster that the Carrier got its turn in the Frontline due to the near complete destruction of Battleship Row. Although a lot of the equipment sunk at Pearl Habour was rescued it took ages to rescue, and train the men lost, thus the aircraft carrier temporarily became the basis of the Battlefleet. During this time it won the acclaim that has made the Aircraft Carrier a symbol of power and strength to this day. Time again in modern times we see the proven ability of the Aircraft Carrier to deliver airpower strategically to remote parts of the globe- Iraq Gulf War I II for example. This is my assessment of the history of the Aircraft Carrier.

 

[plan_D]

That's nice but you missed out the vital fact that the U.K invented the Aircraft Carrier and everything about it. The first purpose built Aircraft Carrier was the H.M.S Ark Royal laid down in 1937.

The Aircraft Carrier was in use with the Royal Navy before Pearl Harbour. In fact, Pearl Harbour was just a repeat of the Royal Navy attack on the Italian fleet at Taranto.

 

[trackend]

I always thought that the Pearl harbour raid was learned from operation Judgment D but having read a bit more about Taranto it seems that the Japanese had war gamed the attack on Pearl in the late thirtys Taranto succeded in confirming the possibility of success in confined and shallow waters.
Ive been thinking of starting a thread about the development and use of the carrier/aicraft what do you think guys?
I know R leonard and some other fellas have a lot of very useful information the only problem I have is if I start it where does it go, in the navel section or the aviation section?

 

[Nonskimmer]

Sounds good. I may learn something new.

 

[trackend]

Hi ya Skim morning or evening what ever it is where you are

 

[Nonskimmer]

Early morning. In fact, I'm about to head off to work. Catch ya later, mate.

 

[trackend]

Mind how you go skimm cheers

 

[plan_D]

The attack on Pearl Harbour has been said to have been learnt from a lot of places. However, Yamamoto's chief of staff (I forget his name) was in Taranto at the time of the Taranto raid by H.M.S Illustrious (Was it Illustrious or Indomitable, I forget).

 

[trackend]

Illustrious D
It was meant to be a joint affair with the Eagle but she was old had boiler trouble and the Regia Aeronautica high level bombing attacks effected the aircraft fueling supply lines of the now ancient Eagle. The systems finally gave up the ghost aided by near misses this just left the one carrier Illustrious with 21 planes some of which had transferred from Eagle to carry out the attack.

 

[Andrew]

The worlds first proper Aircraft Carrier ie: a ship that you can land aircraft on was HMS Argus, she was the partly completed Italian Liner called Conte Rosso and was commissioned in September 1918, used mostly for training during WW2.

HMS Eagle was the next Aircraft Carrier, this was the partly completed Cillean Battleship Almirante Cochrane, commissioned on the 2nd February 1924.

The next RN Aircraft Carrier was HMS Hermes, laid down 15 Jan 1918, launched 11 Septmber 1919 and commissioned July 1924, this was the worlds first ship designed as an Aircraft Carrier from the outset.

HMS Corageous HMS Glorious HMS Furious were all rebuilt as Aircraft Carriers between 1924 1930, these were all ex Light Battle Cruisers, HMS Furious was completed with a flight deck forward and 1 X 18" Gun aft, Courgegous and Glorious were completed as Light Battle Cruisers with Twin 15" Gun turrets 1 forward 1 Aft, these Guns Turrets were eventually used on HMS Vanguard.

HMS Ark Royal was Commissioned on the 16th November 1938.

By the start of WW2 the RN had 7 Aircraft Carriers in commission although 6 of these were getting very long in the tooth by then.

 

[trackend]

I think i better start a carrier thread in the shipping section sorry for taking the subject off thread guys it was my fault.

 

[R Leonard]

Ummm. the operative words are "designed and built as Fleet Carriers". HMS Ark Royal was launched 13 April 1937, and commissioned 16 Nov 1938.

Pre-dating Ark Royal into fleet service as designed and built for purpose fleet carriers were USS Ranger, USS Yorktown, and USS Enterprise. Ranger was launched 25 February 1933, and commissioned 4 June 1934. Yorktown was launched on 4 April 1936, and commissioned on 30 September 1937. Enterprise was 3 October 1936, and commissioned 12 May 1938. I suppose one could present a convincing argument that Ranger, though designated a fleet carrier, was, in the long view based strictly on tonnage, somewhat smaller than a fleet carrier, but larger than a light carrier . . . somehere in between. Damn those treaty restrictions!!!

HMS Hermes, as Andrew noted was a designed and built for purpose aircraft carrier, but would tend to be included in the Light Carrier category on the basis of size, tonnage, and, most importantly, complement.

The first Japanese carrier was Japanese IJMS Hosho, usually noted as the first design and built for purpose aircraft carrier, Hosho, in fact, started life as a tanker, laid down 16 Dec 1919, redesignated as a carrier 13 October 1921, launched 13 Nov 1921, and completed 27 Dec 1922. Hosho, like USS Langley of about the same vintage (renamed and converted from the collier USS Jupiter, starting around 11 April 1920 and recommissloned 20 March 1922), was essentially an experimental carrier. Hermes could also tend to fall into the experimental category if you want to stretch the definition a bit. Also Hermes has the dubious distiction of being the first aircraft carrier sunk by aircraft from an enemy carrier (9 April 1942). Langley, sunk on 27 February 1942, had already been converted to a seaplane tender and was serving as an aircraft transport when sunk by land based aircraft. Of these three experimental carriers, then, only Hosho survived to the end of WW2.

Regards,

Rich

 

[HealzDevo]

All quite interesting information. I really think this whole thread should be shifted to the shipping section of the site as it is all quite good information you people have given.

 

[maxs75]

The first ship projected and built as a carrier was the Japanese Hosho IIRC. The first British was Hermes, the first US was Ranger CV-4 and the first French was Foch class (the Joffre class was incomplete due to the fall of France in 1940).
Anyway the british carrier Argus was very modern (as concept).

Max

 

[Andrew]

R Leonard Quoted

HMS Hermes, as Andrew noted was a designed and built for purpose aircraft carrier, but would tend to be included in the Light Carrier category on the basis of size, tonnage, and, most importantly, complement.

I agree with you, but as built HMS Hermes was clasified as a Fleet Carrier, although her displacement was about 4,000 tons lighter than HMS Argus, and nearly 11,000 tons lighter than HMS Eagle, I cannot remember reading anything about her being reclasified as a Light Fleet Carrier, but that might have happened when the 3 Courageouse Class Battlecruisers were rebuilt as Fleet Carriers.

Maxs75 Quoted

The first ship projected and built as a carrier was the Japanese Hosho IIRC

Hosho was the first ship projected and built as a carrier to be commisioned she was laid down 16.12.1919 Launched 13.11.1921 and commissioned 27.12.1922.

Whereas HMS Hermes was laid down 15/01/1918 launched 11/09/1919 but not commissioned until July 1923, the reason she took so long to be commissioned, was that they couldn't work out what sort of navigation bridge they were going to give her, and used Argus to experiment with several bridge designs, including a rising bridge bridge structure using hydraulics, and they eventually opted for the Island bridge structure instead.

 

[MP-Willow]

Thanks all Carriers are wounderful, and Yamamoto was a grand planner
I ill be looking for the shipping section and this discussion.