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To say the least. Russian weapons have never been known for their accuracy, but then they didn't always have to be accurate. What they lack in guidance, they make up for in yield. If that thing goes off within a mile...well you probably get the picture. Assuming it's nuclear of course, which it well could be. A Shkval will get to you mighty fast too.Maestro said:No honestly, it's scary...
That will probably the last thing they will hear.syscom3 said:I wonder what a defence would be against these.
It would make a tremendous noise while underway, and the ships defenses would easily "hear" it.
I doubt it would help.I think its easier just to destroy the torpedsyscom3 said:Would a large conventional underwater detonation in its path create a shockwave that would wreck the cavitation bubble and deflect it?
On April 5, 2000, an American businessman, Edmond Pope, and a Russian colleague were arrested by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) in Moscow. The men were charged with stealing scientific secrets -- specifically information on the Shkval torpedo. Pope, a retired U.S. Navy captain who spent the majority of his career working in naval intelligence, was then the head of a private security firm. Two weeks after the arrest, the FSB claimed that Pope was seeking plans for the high-speed underwater missile. The retired navy officer was detained during informal contact with one of the Russian scientists who helped to create the torpedo.
Pope spent eight months in the Russian Lefortovo prison awaiting trial. He was convicted of espionage and sentenced to 20 years. On Dec. 14, 2000, Russian President Vladimir Putin pardoned Pope on humanitarian grounds; the American has been suffering from bone cancer.
Pope was in Russia as a businessman to purchase Russian technology when he apparently fell prey to a Canadian intelligence operation intent on purchasing the Shkval torpedoes, according to U.S. intelligence sources.
Design began in the 1960s when the NII-24 research institute was ordered to produce a new weapon system capable of combating nuclear submarines. In 1969, the GSKB-47 would merge with NII-24 to create the Research Institute of Applied Hydromechanics (constructor Merkulov); the Shkval would be a product of this merger.
Deployed in the early 1990s but in fact operational before this, the Shkval is designed as a countermeasure against torpedoes launched by undetected enemy submarines. It may also be used as a counter to incoming torpedoes whereby it is launched at the enemy submarine, forcing it to evade, and hopefully cutting the guidance wire to its torpedo in the process.
Quite possible. Underwater rifles already exist.Smokey said:Apparently supercaviating bullets were also developed for an underwater assault rifle
Are there any such anti-torpedos now?If I am not mistaken Russian Fleet have some kind of missiles that can be fired in the direction of incoming torpedo.But are there any anti-torpedo torpedos?syscom3 said:An anti-torpedo torpedo is quite possible as a defense.
http://www.diehl-bgt-defence.de/index.php?id=550&L=1
Barracuda
Barracuda is a technology demonstration program for a supercavitating underwater missile for defence against torpedoes and for engagement of submarines. It is equipped with a rocket motor, inertial reference unit/autopilot and a mobile, conus-shaped tip. The rocket motor provides Barracuda with an underwater speed of 360km/hr, the inertial reference unit/autopilot stabilizes the missile and the flexible nose cone provides steering. During underwater travel, Barracuda moves in an air bubble, the so-called cavitation bubble which greatly reduces the water resistance, thus enabling the high speed. Some test models of the underwater missile have been built, successfully demonstrating stable straight and curved path accuracy in several tests. Barracuda will be deployed from submarines and from surface vessels.
a) The US Navy bought some shkval's from Yeltsin's govt in the 1990's.
b) There is no guidance: straight line only. They were designed for a Russian sub to perform a suicide attack on a US aircraft carrier by sneaking in close enough for the missle to be effective (but too close for the sub to escape support ships).
c) I would imagine (since these are so noisy) that even a conventional topedo lauched from the targeted vessel could find and kill the shkval, since it's moving towards the conventional torpedo.
d) The Russians conned the Iranians into paying hard cash for an almost useless weapon system.
The American Supercav and the Russian VA-111 Shkval are both high-speed supercavitating torpedoes, 250 mph class (more recently, there are also the English MK70 SpearFish TL8 and the German Barracuda). They don't use blade propellers to move, but powerful powder rocket motors. A fewer part of the generated hot gas is also projected in a front outlet on their nozzle, and the water in contact is vaporized, surronding the entire body, creating very low drag, thus high speed capabilities.
Russia has sold about 40 Shkval-E to China in the 90's.
http://www.periscope.ucg.com/mdb-smpl/weapons/minetorp/torpedo/w0004768.shtml
But think this is old tech: Shkval is more than thirty years old... Its developement program began at Soviet Research Institute NII-24 in the 60's, and a LOT of work, completly different, has since been done. In particular with magnetohydrodynamic torpedoes, made in the 80's, that literally suck water amount of the body and all along of it, with strong electromagnetic forces.
The Russian MHD torpedo codename would be translated in English as "the Big One" or "the Fat One".
MHD torpedoes can travel at very high speed under water such as 1700 mph, because drag is not just reduced as supercavs, but completely eliminated. The drag is even negative, providing up to 70% of thrust thanks to MHD apsiration (around 30% provided by the rocket engine).
MHD propulsion requires large amount of electric power, and the very clever idea of these torpedoes lays in the way how the current is generated: they don't stock it in batteries, nor any capacitors. They create it in situ, extracting electric charges from the exhaust hot (very hot) gas, with an efficient MHD converter that relies on electrodes and magnetic coils. Due to the temperature, the whole system has a very short lifespan (10 seconds or so) but who cares since with such ultra speed you need 3 to 6 seconds to destroy submarine nuclear platforms ? The enemy just cannot react quickly enough.
Now, think that US Navy has since replaced copper coils by superconducting coils, and you can imagine where they are today. Think that the limit is the sound barrier under water and that this speed, unlike in air, is... 3315 mph.
The Russian's torpedos that the US Navy was copying were capable of going 230 mph underwater. Scientific American did a story 4-5 years ago. The link is to an article on the subject. There was also work being done on supercavitating ammo for macine gun defence of ships, i.e. projectiles that don't slow down immediately under water.
Nonskimmer said:Say what you want to about the Shkval, I sure as hell wouldn't like to be in the water with one.